# Are you sick of Christians whining about "Happy Holidays"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 18, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797 "2008-12-18T20:19:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/81 "2008-12-19T07:12:33Z")
Thanks for your response, **JollyGoon**. I can relate to your experiences living among Muslims in a small way. Several years ago I became friends with a family from Morocco, and several of their friends as well. Without exception they were friendly, pleasant, generous and open people, and delightful company. I truly do believe that they are more typical of most people of the Muslim faith than are the terrorists. And yet I never heard (nor to be honest, did I ask for) any comments from any of them that were critical of Islamic terrorism. I think it would go a long way toward helping non-Muslims to have a less negative view of Islam if these moderate Muslims of whom you speak would make their disdain for, and hatred of, Islamic terrorism more well known. ---
**Author:** ![InterestedObserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@InterestedObserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InterestedObserver)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/82 "2008-12-19T07:35:43Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Well since the holiday, from the Christian view, is about the birth of Jesus, it doesn’t bother me at all. I think it should be Merry Christmas. > Yes, I am aware that it is not really Jesus’ birthday and how it used to be a Pagan holiday. > > And if athests wanted to make a holiday out of something or someone, it wouldn’t bother me any either. > > Peace This is the point that bothers me (not that it keeps me up nights or anything, but now that you mention it sort of thing). This time of year is considered, and rightly often called, “the holiday season” because the observances of several faiths and/or worldviews occur during it. It is, first and foremost, the time of the begining of winter, that shortest day of the year, after which the days begin to gradually lengthen until we reach spring. This astronomical event has been celebrated for thousands of years, and still is, by Pagans and those of no particular affiliation. It’s also the time during which very significant observances are marked by Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Christians, and likely others I forgot. It is NOT all about Christmas, the Christian religious observance which happens to fall during this season as well. (and no, it didn’t just “happen” to fall here, but that is beside the point) I have absolutely no issue with the acknowledgment of Christmas by those who observe it, or with the acknowledgment of any other observance of the season. If someone wishes me a happy Chanuka, I say, Thanks, same to you. And If I KNOW which if any holiday someone observes, I will wish them greetings specific to that holiday. Otherwise, it is Happy Holidays or Seasons Greetings. it is just basic respect and tolerance, imo. Which is what irritates me about the whining Christians and their persecution complex surrounding this issue: They cry persecution and intolerance when in reality they are the ones exercising intolerance and seeking to “persecute” (or at least ignore/supress) others. Love the poem, BTW. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/83 "2008-12-19T07:41:46Z")
My only problem, with either side of the fence (and as **Marley** and others have pointed out, it’s seemed so much less of an issue this year), is when inaccuracies or half (non?)- truths are spread as gospel. My father, whom I love dearly, has a propensity to relate things in a concoction of reality (that retailers have encouraged their employs to use “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas”) and glurge (all that translates into no longer being able to say the phrase “Merry Christmas” at all, anytime or anywhere) and in both incidents, ignoring any reasons for the cause. In rural east Texas at least, my family can sit around lamenting this “War on Christmas,” all the while knowing no one who actually does what they are protesting / proclaiming against. They usually do exactly what **Starving Artist** did with his invocation earlier in the thread and in turn face no opposition whatsoever. So whoever they rail against when they complain about this happening (and how very widespread it is!) makes them look like, at best, woefully misguided, or at worst (which I hate), liars for Og only knows why. I’d rather respect anyone for trying to get to the truth of the matter and understand things. So if you’re a Christian who wishes to wonder why the change in policy, do so out of honesty. If you’re not a Christian who’d like to complain about the falsehoods evident in this campaign, do so equally honestly. Also, I’ve been saying “Happy Holidays” since I was a (Christian) kid, because it seemed easier than wrapping Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years all individually for each greeting. Fortunately, then or now I’ve never taken any flak for it, although I have seen the I’m-going-to-be-a-rebel-against-PCism / etc-and-wish-you-a-Merry-Christmas-darn-it! stance before plenty of times. ---
**Author:** ![JollyGoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dec6dc/32.png) [@JollyGoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JollyGoon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/84 "2008-12-19T08:17:42Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I think it would go a long way toward helping non-Muslims to have a less negative view of Islam if these moderate Muslims of whom you speak would make their disdain for, and hatred of, Islamic terrorism more well known. Yes, **Starving Artist**. It’s a shame that their voice is less outspoken than that of the extremists. But here I see and hear it quite often in discussions with those of the faith. It’s just that moderate Muslims condemning extremists doesn’t sell as many papers as the shenanigans of football players and their wives. Damn shame. Oh btw, sorry for the hijack guys. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/85 "2008-12-19T10:50:03Z")
> [@JollyGoon](#): > > Yes, **Starving Artist**. It’s a shame that their voice is less outspoken than that of the extremists. But here I see and hear it quite often in discussions with those of the faith. It’s just that moderate Muslims condemning extremists doesn’t sell as many papers as the shenanigans of football players and their wives. Damn shame. > > Oh btw, sorry for the hijack guys. I also hear moderate Muslims say that sort of thing all the time. Probably because I TALK to them. Comedian Omid Djalili does a bit in his show complaining about how the media find the most extreme lunatics, put them on camera and then claim they are representative of all Muslims everywhere, which is akin to interviewing the Grand Dragon of the KKK or Fred Phelps and claiming they are the voice of the Christian West. Back on topic: good poem and I agree with the sentiments in the OP. I’m agnostic but I like the Christmas festivities and music and am happy for everyone to celebrate their own particular holiday festivals…as long as my tax dollars aren’t funding anything exclusionary. And whoever wrote the bit about “Dream Trees” had to be pulling our collective leg - there’s nothing remotely Christian about Christmas trees. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/86 "2008-12-19T11:50:09Z")
Since I’m living in Europe now, I hadn’t given this issue any thought at all until I got an email from my property manager that said “I hope you and your family have a very Merry CHRISTmas and a Happy New Year!!!” Oh, come on. So I just respond with a thank you and “Boldog Karácsonyt!” which is Merry Christmas in Hungarian. I hope she is not offended when/if she discovers that “Christ” (Krisztus) is not actually a part of the word “Christmas.” And are people really, truly offended by “Happy Holidays”? Ah, the warmth of the season! Festive Days, y’all! ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/87 "2008-12-19T12:23:14Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > You must have typed this wrong. > > You’re not saying you’re a Baha’i and you’re an atheist are you, since Baha’i’s believe in God. Furthermore what’s with “an atheist , but non Christian”? That’s a well duh! :smack: I did indeed type it wrong. I am a theist, not an atheist. Don’t know what got into me! ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/88 "2008-12-19T13:43:51Z")
> [@Engineer\_Dude](#): > > Not sick of it, but I was kind of annoyed when I visited tigetdirect the other day, and it said something like “Order by December 20 in order to receive your order by the holidays”. > > _Christmas_, tigerdirect. Order by December 20 to receive it by _Christmas_. It’s obvious by the date that you had December 25 in mind as the target date. Do you love it when people ask you if you’re “ready for the holidays”? 'Cause I always ask which holidays. I’m entirely prepared for the Fourth of July. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/89 "2008-12-19T13:49:49Z")
I had the following conversation one December while in a store vestible, waiting for the doors to open: Other Person: Thanks just disgusting! Me: What is? OP: This story is open Christmas Day (Points to list of “Holiday Hours”). Me: What is wrong with that? OP: It’s CHRISTMAS! Me: Lady, not everybody celebrates the holiday. Why shouldn’t non-Christians be allowed to shop on December 25th? She backed away from me as I were Satan. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/90 "2008-12-19T14:44:53Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > I think that ‘Happy Holidays’ is the one of the biggest pussy copouts you can find. Pussy copout? PUSSY COPOUT?!? It is anything but for me. I have perfectly good reasons for saying Happy Holidays. Look at it this way: Halloween My birthday Veteren’s Day Diwali Thanksgiving **Anaamika** ’s birthday Hannukah Kwanzaa Christmas Boxing Day New Year I have enough room in my heart to wish every good cheer on all of those days. My heart is not so small to limit my well wishes to one measly day. That, to me, seems niggardly. I want you to enjoy the entire season. That’s the long explanation. The short one is “Happy Holidays, and if you don’t like it, go fuck yourself.” Pussy copout, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/91 "2008-12-19T14:48:00Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I had the following conversation one December while in a store vestible, waiting for the doors to open: I corrected your story: Other Person: Thanks just disgusting! Me: What is? OP: This story is open Christmas Day (Points to list of “Holiday Hours”). Me: What is wrong with that? OP: It’s YOUR BIRTHDAY! Me: Oh yeah. You might want to buy my gifts now. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/92 "2008-12-19T14:57:09Z")
I’m glad I was alone when I read that post, cause I giggled for five minutes. I corrected your list: Halloween My birthday Veteren’s Day Diwali Thanksgiving **Anaamika** ’s birthday Hannukah Kwanzaa Christmas/ **Annie-Xmas** ’s B-day Boxing Day New Year ---
**Author:** ![ThePylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@ThePylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThePylon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/93 "2008-12-19T14:58:21Z")
Grrr… If we’re going to put the “Christ” back in Christmas, let’s also put everything stolen for this time of year “back”. … how about the “Saturn” back in Saturnalia? The “Yule” back in Yuletide? The “Sol” back in Solstice? It’s not “about” “Merry Christmas” any more than any of those. And yet, I still say … Merry Christmas. Stop yer freakin’ whining. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/94 "2008-12-19T15:03:20Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > What Exit?, I do believe in churches. But there is NO ONE who thinks that Christian’s shouldn’t be allowed to say “Merry Christmas.” It’s just that some store owners, in an effort to make everyone, including non-Christians, feel welcome in their stores, have told employees that they need to be inclusive and use a generic greeting. Store owners should be able to set employee standards of conduct, so that the other 25% of their customers feel just as welcome as the 75%. > ETA: Very nice, Valteron! Can I use it? Where do I send the royalty checks. By the way, if I were you editor I would suggest that these lines be re-done: > > \> I know that to Christians this time of the year > \> Is supposed to mark the birth of their Saviour dear > > It just doesn’t seem to have the same meter, and the “dear” seems tacked-on. Agreed. How about: \> According to Christians, this time of year \> Marks the birth of their Savior, it’s clear. ---
**Author:** ![pantheon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6bbea6/32.png) [@pantheon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantheon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/95 "2008-12-19T15:03:51Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Where in Christianity or Bhuddism or Judaism does it outline acceptable terms of doing violence against those who do not accept it or who happen to believe differently? Are you serious? Have you read your book? Exodus 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. Exodus 23:24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images. Exodus 22:18 (King James Version) 18Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Leviticus 20:27 (King James Version) 27A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death. Deuteronomy 17:12 And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die… Deuteronomy 13:1-11 way long, but excerpt “9But you shall kill him.(O) Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10(P) You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.” …off the top of my head. There are many, many more. And these are just commandments to kill these people as you encounter them, without the explicit promise that any who escape killing will burn forever in a lake of fire for believing differently. See John 3:16, operative word “whosoever”. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/96 "2008-12-19T15:04:10Z")
I am annoyed by the whole issue. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/97 "2008-12-19T15:12:29Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Christmas/ **Annie-Xmas** ’s B-day Of course. I, for one, will not forget the REAL reason for the season. Your birthday. I know of two other people who share your birthday. One would have been 116. The other will be 1. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/98 "2008-12-19T15:29:23Z")
> [@Sanders](#): > > Do people really feel unwelcome or offended when a store clerk wishes them a Merry Christmas? People seem to be getting their panties in a twist over “Happy Holidays,” so my WAG would be yes, although I’ve yet to experience that in the course of my life outside the SD. FWIW, I work in retail and none of my superiors have told what I should say to customers wrt greetings, nor even suggested that I have to say anything at all. Personally, I vary between saying, “Have a nice day/evening” and “Happy Holidays.” I don’t think I’ve ever said “Merry Christmas” because, well, I try not to assume that everyone celebrates \*that \*particular occasion. I guess I’m trying to be all-inclusive like everyone else who says “happy holidays.” Honestly, I don’t see the big hairy deal. Customers are just as likely to return the well-wishing with “Merry Christmas” to me and it doesn’t bother me in the least, though I’m agnostic. I do celebrate Christmas because it’s tradition for my family. I love decorating trees and hanging stockings and singing Christmas songs (even the religious ones because they’re pretty – Little Drummer Boy, see?). I love the festivity of it, but being agnostic, I don’t feel the need to associate it at all with religion. Is that so wrong? Can’t I be happy with the rest of it? Incidentally, I’m an equal opportunity religious observance botcher. I have a menorah on my mantle next to my Santa and when I can remember to, I will light the candles and sing the prayers that are ingrained in my head, but essentially meaningless to me, simply because they comfort me with fond memories of childhood. (But I have to call my Dad first to find out what night we’re on because I can’t be assed to keep track of it myself.) Youbetcherass, happy holidays. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/99 "2008-12-19T15:33:32Z")
> [@Engineer\_Dude](#): > > Not sick of it, but I was kind of annoyed when I visited tigetdirect the other day, and it said something like “Order by December 20 in order to receive your order by the holidays”. > > _Christmas_, tigerdirect. Order by December 20 to receive it by _Christmas_. It’s obvious by the date that you had December 25 in mind as the target date. Yes, IF you overlook the fact that Chunnakh and Kwanzza are also both gift giving occastions that fall during that same time period. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/100 "2008-12-19T15:35:36Z")
> [@pantheon](#): > > Are you serious? Have you read your book? > > Exodus 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. > > Exodus 23:24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images. > > Exodus 22:18 (King James Version) 18Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. > Leviticus 20:27 (King James Version) 27A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them. > > Leviticus 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death. > > Deuteronomy 17:12 And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die… > > Deuteronomy 13:1-11 way long, but excerpt “9But you shall kill him.(O) Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10(P) You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.” > > …off the top of my head. There are many, many more. And these are just commandments to kill these people as you encounter them, without the explicit promise that any who escape killing will burn forever in a lake of fire for believing differently. See John 3:16, operative word “whosoever”. Well sure but other than those and a few others … 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797.md?page=6)