# Are you sick of Christians whining about "Happy Holidays"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 18, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797 "2008-12-18T20:19:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![jali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@jali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jali)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/101 "2008-12-19T15:38:05Z")
Great poem. I’m bookmarking to save to send when I get the email. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/102 "2008-12-19T15:43:45Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Halloween > My birthday > Veteren’s Day > Diwali > Thanksgiving > **Anaamika** ’s birthday > Hannukah > Kwanzaa > Christmas/ **Annie-Xmas** ’s B-day > Boxing Day > New Year (Thanks tdn). I’ll add one more - Chinese New Year usually falls in January, and since I am in a relationship with a Chinese guy, it tends to be somewhat important. I too don’t understand why I must limit myself. If someone wishes me Merry Christmas, I will always reply with the same. But I always buy Holiday cards, not Christmas cards. Jesus is not the reason for the season, for me. I have been lectured on it, once or twice. Not recently. In the past, just saying, I’m a Hindu" (when I was) served to shut them up. I do celebrate Christmas. I wonder what saying “I’m atheist” would do. Nice poem, Valteron. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/103 "2008-12-19T15:44:02Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Yes, IF you overlook the fact that Chunnakh and Kwanzza are also both gift giving occastions that fall during that same time period. :rolleyes: So order by the 20th to make sure you get it by the 22nd? That’s pretty awesome service. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/104 "2008-12-19T15:44:19Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Agreed. How about: > > \> According to Christians, this time of year > \> Marks the birth of their Savior, it’s clear. Brown-eyed girl, that is JUST PERFECT, thank you!🙂 You have fixed those lines marvellously. MODERATOR: I know this is unusual, but can you change the first two lines of the before-last stanza of my poem, “I know that to Christians. . . . . .Saviour dear.” and substitute the lines from Brown-eyed girl: “According to Christians, this time of year Marks the birth of their Savior, it’s clear” Thank you very much. If you can’t, I will change it on my version in my computer anyhow. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/105 "2008-12-19T15:50:23Z")
Just answering the thread title: Not really. I understand that (1) change is inevitable and (2) nobody really likes change because it’s a source of insecurity. There’s a generation of us who grew up as American Christians, who never realized that the rest of the world isn’t like us. It was during our lifetime that “the world got smaller,” and world-views other than our own are crowding in on us, not just on the coasts but here in the shopping malls and on Main Street of our small midwestern towns. It makes us uncomfortable, and we really don’t know why, only that a lifelong cherished source of joy is being challenged by people who pretend to be better than we are telling us we can’t issue what used to be a standard Christmas-time greeting in an attempt to spread a little fun and joy in an otherwise pretty fucked-up world. It just seems to add to the fucked-upedness. Now, as I’ve explained elsewhere, I’m a nominal Episcopalian, but no, I do not believe Baby Jesus was actually born of The Virgin Mary in The Manger, blah, blah, blah. Nor do I believe in Santa Claus. But I used to, and seeing the pretty lights and doing the shopping and decorating our home and going to Christmas Eve Eucharist still bring me a tremendous amount of joy and satisfaction this time of year, probably because it all evokes some of the most wonderful memories of my life. So if you see me coming, and you are of the politically correct crowd, turn aside, stranger, or you will bigawd be wished a Merry Christmas. At least until Jan. 6, which is the official end of Christmas in the traditional Christian year. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/106 "2008-12-19T16:01:18Z")
Why, thank you, **Valteron**. I have \*never \*been mistaken for a poet and I kind of figured that someone who has way more talent for verse to come in and put my suggestion to shame. I am, however, honored that you have adopted my minor tweak because I think your poem is very creative and well-done. Pat yourself on the back. ETA: it may also improve the meter if the second line ended with “it’s perfectly clear”. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/107 "2008-12-19T16:08:32Z")
> [@pantheon](#): > > Are you serious? Have you read your book? > > Exodus 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. > > Exodus 23:24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images. > > Exodus 22:18 (King James Version) 18Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. > Leviticus 20:27 (King James Version) 27A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them. > > Leviticus 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death. > > Deuteronomy 17:12 And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die… > > Deuteronomy 13:1-11 way long, but excerpt “9But you shall kill him.(O) Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10(P) You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.” > > …off the top of my head. There are many, many more. And these are just commandments to kill these people as you encounter them, without the explicit promise that any who escape killing will burn forever in a lake of fire for believing differently. See John 3:16, operative word “whosoever”. I will probably curse myself for having hijacked my own thread, which has nothing to do with Islam, but I must point out that the fact that the Bible contains such passages really does not equate to a moral equivalency between Islam and the west in the 21st Century. How many Christian-majority nations do you know who apply such rules in their laws? Now look at Muslim nations. Just a small example: ALL of the nations who provide the death penalty for homosexuality, and all of those who provide 11 years to life imprisonment (except for India which has a huge Muslim population, BTW) are Muslim countries. Many Muslim countries apply the death penalty or other severe punishments for the “crime” of rejecting Islam. There is a world of difference between the practices of the west and Islam. The fact that the Bible contains a few dusty passages that are nothing more than embarassing fossils for even the most conservative believers hardly compares with 17 young Muslims hijacking planes in the 21st century and flying them into the WTC because they were raised to live and breathe every word of the Koran and believe they are going to Paradise while tjhe “infidels” in the aircraft and buildings will go the eternal torment for not believing in Allah. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/108 "2008-12-19T16:52:18Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > (Thanks tdn). > > . . . .I always buy Holiday cards, not Christmas cards. Jesus is not the reason for the season, for me. > > I have been lectured on it, once or twice. Not recently. In the past, just saying, I’m a Hindu" (when I was) served to shut them up. I do celebrate Christmas. I wonder what saying “I’m atheist” would do. > > Nice poem, Valteron. Thanks, Anaamika. And I strongly urge you to say, “I’m atheist.” Why? Because all over the world, atheism is coming “out of the closet”. I feel this expression is very appropriate, because, as a 60-year-old gay man in Canada, I have lived through the “coming out” decades of gays and lesbians, and I have seen how much the coming out of each indivdual can change society. When the first brave gays and lesbians came out of the closet in the 1960s, people stared as if they had two heads and millions of other gays trembled in fear and swore they could never do that. In those days, most countries in the west provided criminal penalties for homosexuality. As for human rights legislation, TV programs like _Will and Grace_, and even gay marriage, the answer would have been “Are you out of your fucking mind?” But as each individual fag and dyke came out, people started to lose their fear of the unknown, and the myths began to fall. What I see happening with atheists today is sooo similar to what I have seen gays do in the past few decades that I cannot describe it as anything other than “coming out.” Let me tell you a funny story: I work very hard as a volunteer in a home for HIV-AIDS sufferers (the majority of residents are not gay, BTW, and I am HIV negative). I give my time cleaning toilets, scrubbing floors, painting and generally doing everything to keep our “clients” comfortable in a clean and beautiful house. (I would not normally brag about this but this IS an anonymous message board, after all.) One day, one of the directors, who is Jewish, was so impressed by my enthusiasm and willingness to help that he asked what religion I am. In front of everyone there, I said I am an atheist. The funny part is, nobody is the slightest bit interested in the fact that I am gay, but this bit of news raised a few eyebrows. Nobody said anything, but I am certain that a few myths and stereotypes about atheists changed in the minds of several people that day. We need “atheist pride” in the same way gays need (or needed in the past ???) gay pride, or just as blacks needed black pride. We now know that the majority of Americans will vote for a black man for president. But did you know that the majority of Americans still would not vote for a declared atheist? Without even knowing his platform or what he stands for!?? Did you know that atheists are less likely to be criminals than believers? For these and other sources of atheist pride, see this Youtube: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T27kB4BjbEg](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T27kB4BjbEg) ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/109 "2008-12-19T18:04:49Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Did you know that atheists are less likely to be criminals than believers? For these and other sources of atheist pride, see this Youtube: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T27kB4BjbEg](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T27kB4BjbEg) What’s that you say, **Valteron**? Atheism’s record of outreach to the disadvantaged and disaffected who comprise the bulk of the criminal classes is marked by indifference to the point of contempt? I can well believe it, but I’m astonished to hear you trumpet it as though it were anything to be proud of. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/110 "2008-12-19T18:08:02Z")
> [@Engineer\_Dude](#): > > Not sick of it, but I was kind of annoyed when I visited tigetdirect the other day, and it said something like “Order by December 20 in order to receive your order by the holidays”. > > _Christmas_, tigerdirect. Order by December 20 to receive it by _Christmas_. It’s obvious by the date that you had December 25 in mind as the target date. I just got done bitching at my Dell rep for “Order by X to get it for the holidays” and my promised arrival date is NOT in time for my wife to have a nice hanukkah present. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/111 "2008-12-19T18:11:03Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Thanks, Anaamika. And I strongly urge you to say, “I’m atheist.” Why? Because all over the world, atheism is coming “out of the closet”. I feel this expression is very appropriate, because, as a 60-year-old gay man in Canada, I have lived through the “coming out” decades of gays and lesbians, and I have seen how much the coming out of each indivdual can change society. I’m getting better at it. My coworkers and friends all know, as well as my family\*. It’s to strangers, on the rare occasion it comes up, I still have a bit of a kneejerk, though in the same situation I would have said “I’m Hindu” without an issue. I agree atheism needs to come out of the closet, too. \*My family, who disowned me for a long time at the news that i wasn’t marrying a Hindu, didn’t even flinch when I told them I was an atheist. Weird. ---
**Author:** ![baronsabato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@baronsabato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/baronsabato)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/112 "2008-12-19T18:12:38Z")
Thanks for the poem. As a Christian, I AM sick of Christians whining about “happy holidays”. Why exactly some Christians are so passionate about associating the most consumer-oriented time of the year with the day God was born into poverty is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/113 "2008-12-19T18:13:00Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I just got done bitching at my Dell rep for “Order by X to get it for the holidays” and my promised arrival date is NOT in time for my wife to have a nice hanukkah present. No doubt your Dell rep is currently smacking himself in the head and admonishing himself for failing to be more clear in his ads. That multi-tasking thing is a real bitch to pull off well. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/114 "2008-12-19T18:41:28Z")
And **Sunrazor** illustrates my point so nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/115 "2008-12-19T18:42:52Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > No doubt your Dell rep is currently smacking himself in the head and admonishing himself for failing to be more clear in his ads. That multi-tasking thing is a real bitch to pull off well. :rolleyes: I didn’t really bitch her out THAT much, I just griped about expecting to get a machine by Hanukkah if I ordered it on the freakin’ 4th of December. I think both Dell and I failed to properly estimate how high the demand for their new Mini 9s was going to be. =P ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/116 "2008-12-19T18:52:54Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I didn’t really bitch her out THAT much, I just griped about expecting to get a machine by Hanukkah if I ordered it on the freakin’ 4th of December. I think both Dell and I failed to properly estimate how high the demand for their new Mini 9s was going to be. =P I figured as much. Only a dingleberry would bitch out a CSR for poorly phrased advertising and shipping delay realities at the holidays. I was just giving you a little flak. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/117 "2008-12-19T19:05:45Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I am an agnostic who does not believe in churches and doubts the existence of God(s). I think the Christians should be allowed to say “Merry Christmas” if they want to without worry of offense and they should be allowed their Christmas Trees even in schools and town offices. > > It really does no real harm and does not appear to impact non-believers as far as I can see. Me, too. But that damned Christmas music has got to go!! ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/118 "2008-12-19T19:53:35Z")
I’ve noticed no whining about it here. We say “Joyeux fêtes” most often, but nobody gets particularly exercised about exactly what festive greetings are proffered. I think the regular, every-day Christians in this part of the world have more important things to worry about, like their jobs and the political situation and why the hell hasn’t the city iced the sidewalks yet when it’s so slippery and dangerous. Which is a shame, because I have a retort saved up, only for cases of extreme provocation (“I’ll put the Christ back in Christmas when you put the Thor back in Thursday”). ---
**Author:** ![schnuckiputzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecb155/32.png) [@schnuckiputzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/schnuckiputzi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/119 "2008-12-19T19:59:56Z")
As a practicing Christian (I even teach in a Christian school), I roll my eyes at those who get all worked up about the ‘holidays’ thing. Hanukkah came around quite a while before Christmas, and there’s a lot of other special days coming up. LIKE MY BIRTHDAY, TOO! (Dec. 25) I’ve received the original email. And deleted it. ---
**Author:** ![pantheon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6bbea6/32.png) [@pantheon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantheon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797/120 "2008-12-19T20:06:12Z")
My response was to SA’s implied claim that there was no codified violence against non-believers in Christianity, Judaism, or Bhuddism. There are several dozen more easily available examples with 30 seconds on Google, and way more than that with the tiniest bit of research. And that’s just the Christians… I never argued that…um…different countries were not different…or that Muslims were not more true to their book than cherry-picking xtians. 😉 /hijack [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sick-of-christians-whining-about-happy-holidays/477797.md?page=7)