# Are You Still SURE There's No Iraq- al Qaida Connection? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 28, 2004, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599 "2004-02-28T07:27:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2004, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/1 "2004-02-28T07:27:49Z")
Just checking to see if anything has changed yet. From [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=3594230) What are the best evidences of a MEANINGFUL connection between the former government of Iraq, (Hussein et al), and al Qaida? Reports that there was contact, or that various Iraqi officials met w/ a person suspected of having ties to al Qaida, things like this don’t count unless there is info regarding the nature of these meetings. I mean, the US has had involved and ongoing contact and dialogue w/ members of AQ and the Taleban involving agreements on terrorist activities down in Gitmo; HOWEVER, these hardly count as evidence of meaningful collaboration in any relevant way between the US and AQ and the Taliban. The evidence should show that: contact occurred an agreement to cooperate in an endeavor that advanced the cause of terrorism was reached, (preferrably but not limited to one(s) that involved WoMD and/or the USA) it was gathered from and/ or reported by a credible source, (no UFO/remote viewing/Illuminati Central Command stuff) If you see something listed as evidence and you have evidence that it isn’t meaningful or doesn’t meet the citeria established, please speak up and provide you reasons, sources and facts too. ---
**Author:** ![dal\_timgar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@dal\_timgar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dal_timgar)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/2 "2004-02-28T16:18:43Z")
I am almost never SURE of anything outside the area of mathematics. So far I have heard or read nothing significant or credible connecting Iraq to Al Qaida. I don’t doubt there are Iraqis smypathetic to and willing to help Al Quaida. There are Americans who are communists, probably even some working for the government, but that doesn’t make the US communist. Dal Timgar > [@SimonX](#): > > Just checking to see if anything has changed yet. > > From [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=3594230) > > What are the best evidences of a MEANINGFUL connection between the former government of Iraq, (Hussein et al), and al Qaida? > > Reports that there was contact, or that various Iraqi officials met w/ a person suspected of having ties to al Qaida, things like this don’t count unless there is info regarding the nature of these meetings. I mean, the US has had involved and ongoing contact and dialogue w/ members of AQ and the Taleban involving agreements on terrorist activities down in Gitmo; HOWEVER, these hardly count as evidence of meaningful collaboration in any relevant way between the US and AQ and the Taliban. > > The evidence should show that: > contact occurred > an agreement to cooperate in an endeavor that advanced the cause of terrorism was reached, (preferrably but not limited to one(s) that involved WoMD and/or the USA) > it was gathered from and/ or reported by a credible source, (no UFO/remote viewing/Illuminati Central Command stuff) > If you see something listed as evidence and you have evidence that it isn’t meaningful or doesn’t meet the citeria established, please speak up and provide you reasons, sources and facts too. ---
**Author:** ![Scarf-Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Scarf-Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarf-Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2004, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/3 "2004-02-28T20:18:31Z")
Its there, right behind the WMDs. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2004, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/4 "2004-02-28T20:31:32Z")
Yep. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/5 "2004-02-29T22:28:34Z")
al-Qaeda weren’t nearly as active in Iraq as they are now. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/6 "2004-02-29T23:03:01Z")
How can anybody be sure there’s no connection? There’s no evidence of one, but absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence. I’d guess there wasn’t one, but I’m certainly not sure. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2004, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/7 "2004-02-29T23:44:06Z")
As far as I can tell, the only real plausible connection mentioned before the war was the Saddam connection with Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Zarqawi is associated with Ansar al-Islam, a terrorist group that was operating in Northern Iraq outside of Saddam’s control. This has been used by opponents of the Zarqawi-Saddam connection to show that Saddam had nothing to do with the man. But there are some problems with this - primarily, the fact that Zarqawi seemed to be able to move freely throughout Iraq, and that he sought and received major medical treatment (a leg amputation) in a Baghdad hospital, something which simply should not have been possible if he were truly an enemy of Saddam. Zarqawi is thought to be one of the masterminds behind the current insurgency in Iraq, and has been in the news recently as the author of a memo which calls for help from al-Qaida in rather desperate fashion. That letter was found in what was thought to be Zarqawi’s ‘safe house’ in Baghdad. So while I’d say that the connection is certainly not proven. There is enough there to warrant further investigation. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/8 "2004-03-01T01:09:20Z")
You’re forgetting your own passionate embrace of the Atta Prague meeting as a smoking gun, **Sam**. That was more than enough for you then. What happened? If the OP is about evidence of Saddam being behind 9/11, then the answer was then strongly suspected by most of the world and a large number of Americans, and is now \*known \* to be, No. ---
**Author:** ![robo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@robo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robo99)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/9 "2004-03-01T01:15:04Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You’re forgetting your own passionate embrace of the Atta Prague meeting as a smoking gun, **Sam**. That was more than enough for you then. What happened? > > If the OP is about evidence of Saddam being behind 9/11, then the answer was then strongly suspected by most of the world and a large number of Americans, and is now \*known \* to be, No. On the other hand, I think there’s a great deal of evidence pointing to a connection between 9/11 and Saudi Arabia! I mean nearly everyone involved was from Saudi Arabia, yet we haven’t invaded THAT country. ---
**Author:** ![robo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@robo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robo99)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/10 "2004-03-01T01:19:53Z")
Also, I’d like to point out that an Iraqi-Al Qaeda connection doesn’t necessarily mean something. Individuals in the U.S. government (such as Oliver North) have been involved in clandestine actions not sanctioned by the President of the U.S.A. Do such actions warrant invasion by other countries? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/11 "2004-03-01T02:51:02Z")
**ElvisL1ves:** Hey, thanks for that. I had forgotten the Mohammed Atta/Prague link - which has still not been refuted. As I understand it, Czech intelligence still stands by their claim that this meeting took place. Here’s an article in [Slate](http://slate.msn.com/id/2091354/) which goes into some detail on the Atta story. Here’s an article from the [Prague Post](http://www.praguepost.com/P02/2002/20605/news1a.php), which quotes the Czech envoy to the UN: > [@](#): > > The Czech envoy to the UN has confirmed that an Iraqi agent met with suspected Sept. 11 hijacker Mohamed Atta, in the latest rebuke to widespread U.S. media reports dismissing the Prague encounter as a fabrication. > > “The meeting took place,” Hynek Kmonicek, a former deputy foreign minister, told The Prague Post flatly in a New York City interview. > > Czech Interior Minister Stanislav Gross announced last fall that Atta and Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim Samir al-Ani, a second consul at the Iraqi Embassy in Prague, had conversed at least once, in April 2001. Gross would not rule out other encounters. > > The controversial meeting became known as “the Prague connection” and was mentioned frequently as a possible pretext for renewed hostilities between the United States and Iraq. > > Al-Ani was expelled from the Czech Republic April 22, 2001 – less than a month after the conversation – for “engaging in activities beyond his diplomatic duties,” a phrase usually reserved for allegations of spying or terrorist-related activities. > > Kmonicek, the Czech Republic’s UN envoy since October, is the most senior government official to openly confirm the encounter since unnamed U.S. intelligence officials began challenging it in anonymous comments reported last month by Newsweek magazine, The Washington Post and The New York Times. > … > Kmonicek said the Czech government collected detailed evidence of the al-Ani/Atta meeting, but declined to elaborate on the nature of the evidence. Soon after, the FBI said that they had hotel rental receipts and other evidence that proved Atta was not in Prague. Czech intelligence then backpedaled, and said that they had lost confidence in their intel in light of this information. That caused a lot of reporting ‘debunking’ the meeting. Later, the FBI admitted that it in fact didn’t have any of this evidence. I classify this one as “jury’s still out”, although given all the turnarounds and screwups surrounding this story and intelligence failures in general, I’d have to add, “and I’m skeptical” to the uncertainty. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/12 "2004-03-01T02:52:12Z")
Oh, and I should add that al-ani, the man Atta supposedly met, is in U.S. custody now, and no one has said anything about this meeting. That makes me even more skeptical that it took place at all, since it seems to me that the U.S. government would love to be able to verify it. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/13 "2004-03-01T06:59:22Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > **ElvisL1ves:** Hey, thanks for that. I had forgotten the Mohammed Atta/Prague link - which has still not been refuted. As I understand it, Czech intelligence still stands by their claim that this meeting took place. > > Here’s an article in [Slate](http://slate.msn.com/id/2091354/) which goes into some detail on the Atta story. > > Here’s an article from the [Prague Post](http://www.praguepost.com/P02/2002/20605/news1a.php), which quotes the Czech envoy to the UN: > > Soon after, the FBI said that they had hotel rental receipts and other evidence that proved Atta was not in Prague. Czech intelligence then backpedaled, and said that they had lost confidence in their intel in light of this information. That caused a lot of reporting ‘debunking’ the meeting. Later, the FBI admitted that it in fact didn’t have any of this evidence. > > I classify this one as “jury’s still out”, although given all the turnarounds and screwups surrounding this story and intelligence failures in general, I’d have to add, “and I’m skeptical” to the uncertainty. 😃 Sam Stone, you’re a classic. The bullshit story was debunked almost two years ago: [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1961668.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1961668.stm) There’s nothing between a-Q and Saddam, never was. Except loathing and hatred. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/14 "2004-03-01T07:08:56Z")
**London\_Calling:** A) I said I maintained a healthy amount of skepticism about this. But it is one of the purported connections. B) There is more to the story than your link. In fact, most of the details I cited occured after your cite was written. Have a look at [this timeline](http://edwardjayepstein.com/2002question/prague.htm)this timeline of the affair. This site seems to suggest that Czech intelligence wasn’t quite as willing to abandon its story as the BBC article would suggest. But as I said, I’m skeptical. However, the OP is asking for any posssible connection. This is certainly one of them, however unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/15 "2004-03-01T07:30:54Z")
What are you talking about ? There is no connection, there was no connection. Like those “purported” WMD, it is bullshit, it always was bullshit. You cited one article in the Prague Post before (in March 2002) the BBC reporting of the FBI retraction and an opinion piece in Slate by a freelancer looking for a buck after (late 2003) . And now you cite some other dude which may or not be a blog. Not exactly going to hold ther front page. I’ll think I’ll stick with the FBI/BBC You stay as “skeptical” as you like while “the jury’s still out”, I suspect the rest of us will get back to the real world. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2004, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/16 "2004-03-01T17:21:39Z")
Are there “connections”? Of course there are, its simply that they must be tenuous connections at best. Are there connections between radical Islamists in Saudi Arabia and the highest reaches of American political power? Yes, there are, starting with the Carlyle Group. If you are going with the premise that any such connection must be proof of malign conspiracy, then GeeDubya’s daddy is at risk of being brought up on charges toot damn sweet. Here’s _my_ wild-ass conjecture: if Saddam had caught wind of the 9/11 conspiracy, he would have dropped the dime on it so fast, it would make your head spin. Because he would know, as facts have borne out, that he would get blamed for it, regardless of any piddling facts, or lack thereof. Osama, the religious fanatic, was not remotely an ally of Saddam, the secular cynic, any more than Rasputin was working in collussion with Lenin. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/17 "2004-03-02T07:34:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Osama, the religious fanatic, was not remotely an ally of Saddam, the secular cynic, any more than Rasputin was working in collussion with Lenin. As people may be rendered speechless by sudden revelation, I am presently almost typeless. Do you realize what you just said? There was absolutely no “link” between Rasputin and Lenin, yet it is a big question who done most to bring about the October coup. ---
**Author:** ![jkim78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@jkim78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkim78)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/18 "2004-03-02T09:09:24Z")
My 2c is that: [drum roll please] Bush was behind 9/11. It was a convenient _terrorism_ attack to _punish_ (dont for get taking the oil) one of the world’s largest sources of oil in the world… (not to forget taking this oil…) I’m now wondering when Bush will admit he fucked up and spit out that it wasn’t Iraq that was in contact with Al Quada but Saudi Arabia. Then he’ll have a whole LOT of oil… ---
**Author:** ![jkim78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@jkim78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkim78)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2004, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/19 "2004-03-02T09:11:01Z")
> [@jkim78](#): > > Then he’ll have a whole LOT of oil… He already has a whole LOT of oil… because he took Iraq. I’d say he’d have a whole lot **more** after taking Saudi… ---
**Author:** ![2Thick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/a88e57/32.png) [@2Thick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Thick)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2004, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599/20 "2004-03-03T07:50:28Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > How can anybody be sure there’s no connection? There’s no evidence of one, but absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence. > > I’d guess there wasn’t one, but I’m certainly not sure. Rumsfeld, is that you? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-still-sure-theres-no-iraq-al-qaida-connection/231599.md?page=2)