# Are you sure you know who God is? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 13, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422 "2013-07-13T20:24:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/201 "2013-07-21T15:32:54Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > At each church I have attended regularly, there has been no teaching about Wiccans and Pagans. (That’s three different denominations.) I have been taught in all three that I’m in no position to judge someone else’s redemptive status or personhood. > > These churches _practice_ love doing such things as raising money for the Food Harvest Bank, sending warm clothing to the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, and comforting those who are in pain. I couldn’t begin to list them all. > > BTW, one of the denominations speaks of “Father-Mother God.” I think I saw every reference here referring to God as “him.” I don’t think that “Father-Mother God” is that much more accurate, but it was a nice change. > > Most atheists I’ve known have taken a “live and let live” attitude. It’s rare that I see Christians here bad-mouthing atheists either. I do see a lot of criticism from atheists who post here who find that the best attack is ridicule or absolutely false claims about most Christians. On the other hand, some of the atheists here are very fair in their comments. > > As for the question about God “letting” a little girl drown: Death is often ugly, sad, and frightening from this side. sometimes. Maybe in the long run, it’s a good thing. (I’m not saying that that is God’s reasoning.) I would not be alive if several people had not died: My maternal great-grand mother’s first husband, my paternal grandfather’s first wife, my paternal grandmother’s first husband, and my grandfather’s first wife. All of these deaths caused a lot of pain and grief. There’s no way that my life could make up for that kind of pain. But I do some good in the world and my death shall come too. I don’t see that as a bad thing. Excellent post. Hear hear. I love it. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/202 "2013-07-21T15:35:22Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > A silly statement, the two have nothing to do with one another. If anything love tends to be associated with lies and self delusion, not truth. Really? Not in my world it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/203 "2013-07-21T16:22:18Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Really? Not in my world it isn’t. The glimpses of your world that you have shared with us over the years frighten me sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/204 "2013-07-21T17:51:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The glimpses of your world that you have shared with us over the years frighten me sometimes. Just love unconditionally and your troubles will be over. It is a little scary at first. Takes a lot of courage. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/205 "2013-07-21T18:03:08Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Just love unconditionally and your troubles will be over. It is a little scary at first. Takes a lot of courage. Please stop repeating meaningless tripe. It’s tiresome. That you’ve been asked to stop on multiple occassions and you refuse just makes it all the more insulting. ---
**Author:** ![Renee\_RL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7c8e57/32.png) [@Renee\_RL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee_RL)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/206 "2013-07-21T18:14:01Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > That is your belief and it works for you, for some it doesn’t, both have the right to their own thoughts and beliefs. It proves nothing about a god. Some see truth as the most powerful thing and without truth there would not be love, for there are many interpretations of what Love is. If god is unconditional love, why does he need to be worshipped and why is there hell? ---
**Author:** ![Renee\_RL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7c8e57/32.png) [@Renee\_RL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee_RL)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/207 "2013-07-21T18:15:19Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Just love unconditionally and your troubles will be over. It is a little scary at first. Takes a lot of courage. Why should one love evil unconditionally? It doesn’t take courage, it shows an inability to discriminate between good and evil ---
**Author:** ![Renee\_RL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7c8e57/32.png) [@Renee\_RL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee_RL)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/208 "2013-07-21T18:17:45Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Excellent post. Hear hear. I love it. Has it ever dawned on you that god believers aren’t all Christians? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/209 "2013-07-21T19:39:43Z")
> [@Prejteach2](#): > > If god is unconditional love, why does he need to be worshipped and why is there hell? He doesn’t need to be worshiped and there is no hell. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/210 "2013-07-21T19:40:51Z")
> [@Prejteach2](#): > > Has it ever dawned on you that god believers aren’t all Christians? Sure, why would that make a difference. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/211 "2013-07-21T19:43:00Z")
> [@Prejteach2](#): > > Why should one love evil unconditionally? It doesn’t take courage, it shows an inability to discriminate between good and evil I don’t remember saying to love evil, I am talking about people. Look I know you don’t understand and don’t want to understand, ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/212 "2013-07-21T19:51:39Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > As for the question about God “letting” a little girl drown: Death is often ugly, sad, and frightening from this side. sometimes. Maybe in the long run, it’s a good thing. (I’m not saying that that is God’s reasoning.) I would not be alive if several people had not died: My maternal great-grand mother’s first husband, my paternal grandfather’s first wife, my paternal grandmother’s first husband, and my grandfather’s first wife. All of these deaths caused a lot of pain and grief. There’s no way that my life could make up for that kind of pain. But I do some good in the world and my death shall come too. I don’t see that as a bad thing. One of my friends is only here due to some deaths. Six million to be precise. His parents met in a death camp, and his father’s first wife and children were killed. The world only makes sense if it is senseless. I can accept that we are all here due to random chance. If there is plan, however, the planner is the biggest monster the universe has ever seen. I just don’t understand how any believer in a god who can intervene can handle that. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/213 "2013-07-21T21:40:05Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > One of my friends is only here due to some deaths. Six million to be precise. His parents met in a death camp, and his father’s first wife and children were killed. > The world only makes sense if it is senseless. I can accept that we are all here due to random chance. If there is plan, however, the planner is the biggest monster the universe has ever seen. I just don’t understand how any believer in a god who can intervene can handle that. I don’t think I have explained anything that posters would want to believe, so I will provide this link which explains in detail my beliefs on this subject. > **[Where did Evil come from? - Lekatt Thoughtful Living](https://aleroy.com/blog/archives/651)** > > The physical world, in which we now live, was created to provide a classroom for young souls to learn about themselves and others. Here we take physical bodies that seemingly separate us from others. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/214 "2013-07-22T11:17:47Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Without love there could be no truth. > It does work for everyone who chooses love. > It won’t work for those who don’t. Not so,Truth is was is. Love can be a different thing to different people. If love isn’t true is isn’t love. Love needs a person to Love. Truth stands alone. Has no needs. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/215 "2013-07-22T11:21:33Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Truth stands alone. No. Cheese stands alone. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/216 "2013-07-22T11:30:01Z")
> [@Prejteach2](#): > > If god is unconditional love, why does he need to be worshipped and why is there hell? Indeed God should have no needs, Nor would a loving supreme being punish people for faults he built into them. If he new this I would think he would want or at the very least,have known that creature he created would disobey, and there would be people who God would know were going to be evil, so it would mean he wants evil to exist! ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/217 "2013-07-22T12:33:28Z")
**Prejteach2** , I agree with **Monavis** that God doesn’t need to be worshipped and that there is no hell. I have a spiritual need to worship God – even if it’s just prayer or music or meditation. And since your response to **lekatt** made reference to some comments of mine, you might want to know that I **am** a Christian and I am open to learning from many faiths. I’m not unusual in that. **Voyager** , I don’t think that there was any planning that had to do with me when the loved ones of my family died. The sense of responsibility that I sometimes feel about it comes from within me. I don’t understand the Holocaust or war and I have no answers. It haunts me. The only thing that I have learned in recent years is that I am not much different from a Nazi or a Jew. I try to relief my conscience remembering that there were good Nazis too. I can name only one: Oskar Schindler. I don’t think that Jew and Arabs are that different. Nor are Arabs and Caucasions, and so on. If we all _tried_ to live with unconditional love, maybe boundaries would fade away. (I have not been successful in fulfilling my part of the effort.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/218 "2013-07-22T12:45:27Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > And since your response to **lekatt** made reference to some comments of mine, you might want to know that I **am** a Christian and I am open to learning from many faiths. I’m not unusual in that. No-the claim is not unusual at all. What have you learned from other other religions that your own religion didn’t provide you? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/219 "2013-07-22T13:51:16Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Truth stands alone. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > No. Cheese stands alone. Cheese is truth. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/220 "2013-07-22T14:09:15Z")
I do not choose to tell you what I have learned from other faiths. The Baha’i faith and Buddhism are two that make much sense to me _in part_ and have been spiritually meaningful. Maybe that will give you a clue. I’m thinking about reading at least some of the Koran to try to better understand Islamic beliefs. Beliefs are not just about what’s in the Bible or other holy books. Beliefs come from day to day openness to experience – even to the voices of some atheists. I pretty well shut down, however, to those who _dont_ “cherry-pick” from the religious perspectives of the world. I sense that you may be thinking more about what you are going to ask next than paying attention to what I say. If I am wrong, I’m sorry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422.md?page=12)