# Are you sure you know who God is? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 13, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422 "2013-07-13T20:24:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/161 "2013-07-19T16:48:41Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > We have been through this many times. > > [Global Poll: Most Believe in God, Afterlife | World](http://www.christianpost.com/news/global-poll-most-believe-in-god-afterlife-49994/) > People have always believed in an afterlife even the cavemen. > But those who have experienced it know even more and there are millions of them. > Why is that so hard to believe. Your own cite shows you to be incorrect - > [@](#): > > The Ipsos/Reuters poll also found that 51 percent believe that there is an afterlife while 23 percent believe they will just “cease to exist.” Around a quarter (26 percent) simply don’t know what will happen after death. So, there goes another one of your supposed statements down the swirly. And how many people do you know personally that have experienced death and lived to talk abou tit? The IQ of this board goes down with every post you make. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/162 "2013-07-19T16:54:48Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Your own cite shows you to be incorrect - > > So, there goes another one of your supposed statements down the swirly. > > And how many people do you know personally that have experienced death and lived to talk abou tit? > > The IQ of this board goes down with every post you make. I know many that have experienced dead and lived to tell about it. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/163 "2013-07-19T16:55:21Z")
> [@simster](#): > > And how many people do you know personally that have experienced death and lived to talk abou tit? Dude, you do not want to get lekatt talking about this. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/164 "2013-07-19T16:57:24Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > This word you keep using, love, I do not think it means what you think it means. Do you mean agape? Eros? Phileo? Storge? > > If you understand why we discount religious doctrine, then why don’t you understand why we discount your religious doctrine of love? There is only one kind of love and that is unconditional love. It means you care, have compassion, and love everyone. You should start by loving yourself. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/165 "2013-07-19T16:59:47Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I know many that have experienced dead and lived to tell about it. That is such a non-sensical statement - and you know it - but this isn;t the pit so I’ll stop now. have a pleasent day - try not to wake up dead tomorrow - it will ruin it for you. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/166 "2013-07-19T17:05:11Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Your own cite shows you to be incorrect - > > So, there goes another one of your supposed statements down the swirly. > > And how many people do you know personally that have experienced death and lived to talk abou tit? > > The IQ of this board goes down with every post you make. Still more than half. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/167 "2013-07-19T17:06:21Z")
> [@simster](#): > > That is such a non-sensical statement - and you know it - but this isn;t the pit so I’ll stop now. > > have a pleasent day - try not to wake up dead tomorrow - it will ruin it for you. If I wake up in the spirit world tomorrow it will be a wonderful day. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/168 "2013-07-19T17:08:16Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Still more than half. You were still 100% wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/169 "2013-07-19T18:25:08Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > If I wake up in the spirit world tomorrow it will be a wonderful day. I was going to say “What’s stopping you?”, but that is getting to far into the “wishing harm on another” rule, especially when the followup argument goes something like this. believer: God doesn’t want me to kill myself. If God wants me to come home to him, he will bring me home himself. counterargument: “God helps those that help themselves.” So, help yourself. Better just not go there. > [@](#): > > Yes, children can love while being abused, it is called unconditional love. There’s a difference between loving your abuser even though they abuse you and not wanting the abuse to stop. Your mindless platitudes are idiotic. Unconditional love sounds great if you don’t think about it. But even then it doesn’t mean you have to let the evil continue. > [@](#): > > You blame God for all those things? They were done by man not God. Those who do them will be corrected. If you can stop something like this then do so and quit blaming God for man’s actions. I’m not the one who is omnipresent, who knows what everyone is doing at all times, who can answer prayers in an instant. If God can stop something like that, then he should do so. So either he can’t or he won’t. Is God incapable, or unwilling? Those are rhetorical questions. I’m not going to continue arguing. You’re welcome to your beliefs, I sure don’t want them. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/170 "2013-07-19T18:27:13Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > There is only one kind of love and that is unconditional love. > It means you care, have compassion, and love everyone. > You should start by loving yourself. What are you talking about? I just named 4 different kinds of love, and this unconditional type of love wasn’t on the list. Sound like you’re the one that needs the lesson here. And I totally love myself. Twice just last night. ---
**Author:** ![Renee\_RL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7c8e57/32.png) [@Renee\_RL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee_RL)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/171 "2013-07-19T18:59:59Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > It isn’t. Ask any child being molested on a regular basis by a family member. Ask anyone starving to death in the middle of a war zone. Ask anyone slowly dying of a painful disease who isn’t being allowed to die. If god is omnipotent then he must be a sadist. Imagine if I had the power to save a drowning child and I chose not to. Maybe god is neither good nor omnipotent? ---
**Author:** ![Renee\_RL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7c8e57/32.png) [@Renee\_RL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee_RL)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/172 "2013-07-19T19:01:41Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I know many that have experienced dead and lived to tell about it. They have had the near death experience where their bodies shut down and they have the same experience because biologically they see the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Renee\_RL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7c8e57/32.png) [@Renee\_RL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee_RL)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/173 "2013-07-19T19:02:55Z")
People believe in the supernatural because they need to. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/174 "2013-07-19T20:11:16Z")
> [@Prejteach2](#): > > If god is omnipotent then he must be a sadist. Imagine if I had the power to save a drowning child and I chose not to. Maybe god is neither good nor omnipotent? Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? - - Epicurus\* ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/175 "2013-07-19T20:12:45Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Something about these types of unsubstantiated platitudes, repeated ad nauseum, that makes me feel the opposite of love. > [@lekatt](#): > > …death does not exist. We are all eternal. Then you wouldn’t mind if **Quicksilver** and I put you out of our misery? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/176 "2013-07-19T20:21:38Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I am no prophet, and I agree with you 100%. Did god speak to you in a dream, and was that dream the basis of your spiritual awakening, which you relate to anyone who will listen? Call yourself what you will, you claim special knowledge from a spiritual source. If that spirit wants all of us to know that truth, why doesn’t it simply speak to us the way it spoke to you? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/177 "2013-07-19T21:27:04Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Did god speak to you in a dream, and was that dream the basis of your spiritual awakening, which you relate to anyone who will listen? > > Call yourself what you will, you claim special knowledge from a spiritual source. If that spirit wants all of us to know that truth, why doesn’t it simply speak to us the way it spoke to you? Not at all. I don’t have any special or secret knowledge. It is only a matter of being aware of what is happening around you in this world. God does speak to you in the same way as I hear Him. It is just a thought, but there is so much negativity here I doubt one can hear anything for it. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/178 "2013-07-19T21:37:12Z")
I think it comes down to a few possibilities: -1) God exists but does not intervene in the world. Hence human suffering, injustice, etc. -2) God exists and he takes limited intervention in the world (hence miracles, etc.) -3) God exists and he intervenes in the world. -4) God exists but he allows human will to run the world (hence dictators, world wars, etc.) -5) God does not exist. Whatever you believe, it must be one of these. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/179 "2013-07-19T21:43:15Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > It isn’t. Ask any child being molested on a regular basis by a family member. Ask anyone starving to death in the middle of a war zone. Ask anyone slowly dying of a painful disease who isn’t being allowed to die. **lekatt** and reality have parted ways. That his theology is also personally insulting only makes it uglier. “God answers all prayers,” only when you interpret “dead silence” as “he answered but you didn’t listen.” By that logic, I’m a millionaire because there’s a winning lottery ticket out there that could have been mine if I’d bought it. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422/180 "2013-07-19T21:45:29Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Really? > > A man was caught in a flash flood and climbed to the roof of his house. A boat came along and offered to take him to safety. He replied “no thanks, God will save me.” Then 30 minutes later a helicopter appeared and tossed him a harness. He said “no thanks, God will save me.” The house turned over and the man drown. When he got to heaven he asked God “why didn’t you save me.” God said “I sent you a boat and a helicopter what more did you want.” > > Within each problem is the solution. God did not send me a boat or a helicopter. You are wrong, and your theology is insulting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-sure-you-know-who-god-is/663422.md?page=10)