# Are you Team Trayvon or Team Zimmerman? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881 "2012-03-26T21:27:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/221 "2012-03-27T23:26:57Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Perhaps because [it’s been corroborated by witnesses?](http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/trayvon-martin-shooting-details-emerge-facebook-twitter-accounts-180103647.html) > . If this is being claimed by he same authorities who failed to follow up on major clues (like Martin’s phone), who announced that Zimmerman felt the need to defend himself in the absence of a complete investigation, and who witnesses say did a dodgy job of taking their statements–even reportedly going so far as to correct things they said so that they fit with Zimmermans statement–I am not inclined to believe them. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/222 "2012-03-27T23:31:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > They don’t get to decide whether it applies or doesn’t apply in this case. They would know better than anyone what they intended when they drafted the law, wouldn’t they? Of course, it is a well-known fact that legislators have a knack for passing ambiguous laws, and that the courts are likely to resolve ambiguity in favor of a criminal defendant. Hopefully Florida’s SYGL is clear enough not to stand in the way of putting this Zimmerman bastard where he deserves, which is behind bars. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/223 "2012-03-27T23:38:56Z")
Except there was nothing at all suspicious about Trayvan to zimmerman except for his blackness. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/224 "2012-03-27T23:43:41Z")
> [@](#): > > you can’t defend yourself from that perceived threat. Oh, you can, but then you’re no longer an innocent party but a threatening black athlete that wants to kill his ex-wife. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/225 "2012-03-27T23:43:41Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > They would know better than anyone what they intended when they drafted the law, wouldn’t they? The language of the law trumps the supposed intent. There is nothing in the law that says that it doesn’t apply. ---
**Author:** ![XaMcQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/f9ae1b/32.png) [@XaMcQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XaMcQ)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/226 "2012-03-27T23:49:13Z")
I’m Team ‘Cops were lazy, incompetent morons’, so we no longer have a snowflake’s chance in the hot place of getting decent evidence of what really happened. My general impression is that they showed up, found a black kid dead and an off-white guy who looked a little roughed up and said ‘self-defense, case closed’. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/227 "2012-03-27T23:50:36Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The language of the law trumps the supposed intent. There is nothing in the law that says that it doesn’t apply. I prefer the interpretation of those who drafted the law over your interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/228 "2012-03-27T23:55:13Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > I prefer the interpretation of those who drafted the law over your interpretation. They didn’t “interpret”. They just claimed. Read the law. Point to any language that would hint that it doesn’t apply in this case. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/229 "2012-03-28T00:26:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > They didn’t “interpret”. They just claimed. Read the law. Point to any language that would hint that it doesn’t apply in this case. Listen asshole, for someone who drafted a law to “claim” such-and-such about the law obviously connotes that he “interprets” the law in such-and-such a way, that it is _his informed legal opinion._ What the drafter in question has not done is provide an explanation, a legal brief. Frankly since the Florida legislature did its share to create this mess I would think some such statement of intent and interpretation would be forthcoming from it. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/230 "2012-03-28T01:16:47Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Well, if I understand all this correctly, and I’m not at all sure that I do, the police investigation was done on the spot and lasted for two or three hours, if that. At the very least, the case should have been referred to the DA’s office. Any case involving violent death deserves more than that. [ABC is reporting](http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-investigator-wanted-charge-george-zimmerman-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T3Jk92Ftopm) as follows: > [@](#): > > The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News. > > But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney’s office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn’t enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News. Recall that earlier you said this: > [@](#): > > I have to agree the police were much too quick to dismiss the case as self-defense. It looks to me like you may be guilty of the sin of which you accused the authorities: Making up your mind based on too little information. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/231 "2012-03-28T01:25:13Z")
Sounds like someone is trying to CYA all of a sudden. Sanford PD is more dysfunctional than I thought. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/232 "2012-03-28T01:31:20Z")
Our very good friends over at T_hinkProgress_ have compiled the cites for various themes running through this narrative. You got your "This guy looks like he’s up to no good, on drugs or something. " quote, the ever popular “street sign examination” doozy, and, everbody’s favorite, the “bloody nose”. Cites include links, publications, the whole magilla. Joe Bob 'luc says “Check it out!” [http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/18/446768/what-everyone-should-know-about-about-trayvon-martin-1995-2012/](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/18/446768/what-everyone-should-know-about-about-trayvon-martin-1995-2012/) ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/233 "2012-03-28T01:32:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > They don’t get to decide whether it applies or doesn’t apply in this case. Why not? They could just introduce a bill of attainder against Zimmerman and declare him guilty by legislative fiat. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/234 "2012-03-28T01:34:43Z")
Typical, gotta be some fancy Yurpeen car. Can’t use a good plain ordinary legislative Ford, or Chrysler. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/235 "2012-03-28T02:00:37Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If this is being claimed by he same authorities who failed to follow up on major clues (like Martin’s phone), who announced that Zimmerman felt the need to defend himself in the absence of a complete investigation, and who witnesses say did a dodgy job of taking their statements–even reportedly going so far as to correct things they said so that they fit with Zimmermans statement–I am not inclined to believe them. So basically you just believe whatever you want to believe no matter what the actual facts say. Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/236 "2012-03-28T02:09:08Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > So basically you just believe whatever you want to believe no matter what the actual facts say. Gotcha. That you assume Facebook rumors, the statements of a police department whose history of racism IS THE CENTRAL ISSUE HERE, and hypothetical statements from unnamed “witnesses” that contradict actual statements from witnesses who have identified themselves and produced recordings that corroborate their story, constitute “actual facts,” says a hell of a lot about your own opinion regarding white people murdering black people for no reason without legal consequence. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/237 "2012-03-28T02:15:29Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > That you assume Facebook rumors, the statements of a police department whose history of racism IS THE CENTRAL ISSUE HERE, and hypothetical statements from unnamed “witnesses” that contradict actual statements from witnesses who have identified themselves and produced recordings that corroborate their story, constitute “actual facts,” says a hell of a lot about **your own opinion regarding white people murdering black people for no reason without legal consequence**. I’m agin’ it. Also, as soon as I hit submit I knew someone would respond like this. By “actual facts” I meant both what we think is the case now and what comes out late as actually being the case. I was indicting you with the face’s method of determining the truth, not what she currently thinks is the truth. The police are the investigative arm of the justice system, so if she’s just going to dismiss every single thing the police say, then it’s apparent she’s living in a faith-based reality system. Finally, funny that you mention the police department’s history of racism being the central issue. Your post is the first I’ve heard of it. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/238 "2012-03-28T02:20:13Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Finally, funny that you mention the police department’s history of racism being the central issue. Your post is the first I’ve heard of it. I know, your people think this is about nonexistent gold teeth and “self-defense” including the right to stalk and assault children if they are the wrong color for Real America. It’s not, though. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/239 "2012-03-28T02:23:39Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > I know, your people think this is about nonexistent gold teeth and “self-defense” including the right to stalk and assault children if they are the wrong color for Real America. It’s not, though. Who are “my people” exactly? All the other atheist libertarian tax lawyers out there? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/240 "2012-03-28T02:24:09Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > nonexistent gold teeth Are you [sure they are non-existent](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/27/media-matters-honcho-sorry-after-blasting-drudge-for-trayvon-photo/)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881.md?page=13)