# Are you Team Trayvon or Team Zimmerman? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881 "2012-03-26T21:27:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/241 "2012-03-28T02:34:57Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Who are “my people” exactly? All the other atheist libertarian tax lawyers out there? People on the conservative blogosphere who unleashed a torrent of racism in response to this case; people who think it’s okay for a white man to patrol around his neighborhood looking for blacks to murder; you know…racists. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/242 "2012-03-28T02:36:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Are you [sure they are non-existent](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/27/media-matters-honcho-sorry-after-blasting-drudge-for-trayvon-photo/)? Still no sources saying that’s a real photo of him besides conservative blogs (ranging from “The Wagist” to the ever-delightful “[chimpout.com](http://chimpout.com)”, which is on the first page of results for "Trevyon Martin gold teeth). I’ve noticed a weird tendency of people on the right to pick up on whatever their compatriots have pulled out of their asses and act like anyone who doesn’t accept it’s true is not living in reality. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/243 "2012-03-28T02:37:53Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > People on the conservative blogosphere who unleashed a torrent of racism in response to this case; people who think it’s okay for a white man to patrol around his neighborhood looking for blacks to murder; you know…racists. Why are those people “my” people? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/244 "2012-03-28T02:49:20Z")
Spike Lee provides some [uninformed assholery](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/trayvon-martin-spike-lee-tweet-elderly-couple-at-address-304908). He needs to get his ass on Twitter and do what he can to make sure everybody gets the “Wrong address: ABORT” message. (Though if something did happen to the poor old couple he’d probably be arrested before Zimmerman was.) ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/245 "2012-03-28T03:08:23Z")
> **[Sourcing Trayvon Martin](https://archives.cjr.org/the_audit/sourcing_trayvon_martin_photos.php)** > > Not a good idea, Business Insider Just so it’s clear. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/246 "2012-03-28T06:00:25Z")
This issue is really bringing out the worst in everyone. From the racist wingnuts, to opportunistic attention whores like Sharpton, to the crazy liberals (including some on this board) who are almost literally frothing with outrage over their own frenzied imaginations of what Zimmerman was thinking and doing. I have been only loosely following the case for the past week or so, and from my perspective what happened is relatively straightforward: Zimmerman is an overzealous wannabe cop who gets off on playing badass by being a neighborhood watch captain, he thought Martin looked suspicious, and followed him through the neighborhood to see what he was up to. They got into some kind of scuffle, and Zimmerman, not much of a badass after all, probably panicked and shot him. The cops showed up and decided the evidence did not support arresting Zimmerman. Whether they did a thorough job of documenting that evidence isn’t really clear. While this is a regrettable situation all around, unfortunately, being an overzealous wannabe cop is not illegal. Following people through a neighborhood is not illegal. Getting out of your car to follow a person is not illegal. Ignoring things the 911 dispatcher says is not illegal. And nor is shooting an unarmed man who is attacking you. What it comes down to is who actually initiated the physical confrontation, and we simply can’t tell given the evidence that’s been made public. Personally, I find I hard to believe that Martin could not have outrun Zimmerman if it came to that, and Zimmerman does not strike me as the type of person with the guts to actually start a fight. But this is all just speculation. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/247 "2012-03-28T07:54:53Z")
I’m on the side that says murder is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/248 "2012-03-28T07:58:49Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > The cops showed up and decided the evidence did not support arresting Zimmerman. The lead investigator did not believe Zimmerman’s story and did, in fact, recommend charging him with manslaughter at the time. > [@Absolute](#): > > Personally, I find I hard to believe that Martin could not have outrun Zimmerman if it came to that, and Zimmerman does not strike me as the type of person with the guts to actually start a fight. But this is all just speculation. Martin did not know the situation, did not know why Zimmerman was following him. Zimmerman knew that he was armed (in violation of neighborhood watch guidelines) and following a suspected criminal (despite the police saying they didn’t need him to), thus creating a potentially deadly situation. It doesn’t make sense to say “either could have avoided the other” when only one of them knew what was happening. Martin initially noticed Zimmerman following him in a truck. Most likely he left the road to wait for it to clear. Zimmerman continued to follow him, eventually leaving his vehicle. Martin still didn’t know what was going on. Reportedly he asked Zimmerman why he was following him and Zimmerman refused to answer. But at this point, likely close range and face to face, discovering finally that his fear was not an illusion, it was too late to turn his back and run if Zimmerman revealed he was armed or tried to grab him. Try it yourself… spend the night being chased by someone you discover is an armed lunatic, then turn your back on him when he comes at you from close range. (but don’t blame me if you get shot in the back) ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/249 "2012-03-28T09:06:19Z")
According to the Think Progress compilation, the arresting officer did not arrest a lieutenants son for beating up a black homeless guy. I guess that would qualify as a history of racism? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/250 "2012-03-28T09:17:25Z")
What happens if Zimmerman stays in the truck? The cops come and question Martin, no doubt frisking him as well since captain crimefighter found him suspicious. A typical experience for young, black males. There were nearly 700,000 “stop and frisks” in NYC alone last year, with minorities accounting for 87% of the friskees. Multiply that across the nation and it’s not hard to understand where the anger and resentment towards the police comes from. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/251 "2012-03-28T11:27:24Z")
The better hypothetical is, what happens if Martin, after being stalked by a racist lunatic for a period of time, sees the guy coming out of the truck to execute him and “stands his ground” by shooting Zimmerman. I’m guessing what does NOT happen is a bunch of flag-waving for the shooter from the right-wing blogosphere. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/252 "2012-03-28T13:17:01Z")
I imagine that this might be what people have in mind when they talk about the town’s racist history: [http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/jackie-robinson-trayvon-martin-and-sad-history-sanford-florida](http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/jackie-robinson-trayvon-martin-and-sad-history-sanford-florida) ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/253 "2012-03-28T13:29:33Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I sure am glad we finally got an explanation of how the hispanic guy is named Zimmerman… … and Bob Dylan is thinking “Shit, someone else’s gonna have to write this one.” ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/254 "2012-03-28T13:45:50Z")
If I knew someone was following me and I also knew that they had a gun, the last thing I would do is try to punch them in the face. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/255 "2012-03-28T13:54:22Z")
How can you frame self defense when there is audio tape of the child begging for help? And it does seem that the cops didn’t buy the story either, they wanted the shooter charged. ---
**Author:** ![Schyler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Schyler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schyler)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/256 "2012-03-28T14:04:45Z")
I’m for team Justice. In the news media today it’s more about “the truth and nothing but the truth”. What about the “whole” truth? I’ve watched the basics on CNN about the case. Big ole dude with a scowl on his face and a white t-shirt beats up on and shoots a 140 lb. kid eating skittles. The perception is that the big guy killed the little guy. Er. .not exactly. I’m sure CNN verifies information before they air it. According to someone on the Anderson Cooper show last night the “big” guy was actually Trayvon (at 6’2") (not exactly the same as in the pics we’ve been fed over tv the last couple weeks) (Not that anyone deserves to be killed, I’m just saying sometimes size does matter) Zimmerman came in at 5’8". All else aside about getting out of the car, etc, would you be intimidated by someone half a foot taller than you??? Would that fact alone give you pause for thought?? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/257 "2012-03-28T14:05:39Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Are you [sure they are non-existent](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/27/media-matters-honcho-sorry-after-blasting-drudge-for-trayvon-photo/)? Oh, he had a grill.\* Fuck it then, that changes everything and I officially endorse his murder. :dubious: You are a vile piece of shit, just so you know. \*_Or not. Who the fuck cares, since last time I checked that wasn’t a killin’ crime either._ ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/258 "2012-03-28T14:25:33Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Who the fuck cares, My impression is that the mainstream media cares very much, since the public is being constantly bombarded with a picture of Martin which makes him look like a sweet innocent 14-year-old boy. (As well as a scowling picture of Zimmerman wearing an orange prison jumpsuit.) If instead, the picture was distributed of Martin which makes him look like a Thug-in-Training, do you think Obama would have said what he said about the case? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/259 "2012-03-28T14:30:59Z")
You can just about see his grill on the image to the left. I think it’s pretty much irrelevant though; if it had been emphasised from the start, there would be the same amount of backlash from the left about portraying an image as there is from the right now. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/260 "2012-03-28T14:31:08Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > If instead, the picture was distributed of Martin which makes him look like a Thug-in-Training, do you think Obama would have said what he said about the case? Does a picture of Trayvon looking like a “Thug-in-Training” exist? I haven’t seen anything that makes him look like anything other than a typical African-American teenager from the suburbs. You must have a vested interest in this “Thug-in-Training” story. Do you think Thugs-in-Training deserve to be shot walking home from the store or something? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881.md?page=14)