# Are you Team Trayvon or Team Zimmerman? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881 "2012-03-26T21:27:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/301 "2012-03-28T17:07:43Z")
Two things: First, your point is only valid if they had contacted the father _before_ talking to the witness. You have evidence to that effect? And the father’s statement is directly refuted by him, as you already well know. Yet you persist in presenting it as though it had not been contradicted by him. Why is that? Do you believe the witness’ suggestion that the interviewing policeman attempted to influence her statement by “correcting” it? If you do, does that strike you as an effort to obtain clear and uninfluenced testimony? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/302 "2012-03-28T17:10:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Two things: First, your point is only valid if they had contacted the father _before_ talking to the witness. You have evidence to that effect? They talked to the eyewitness before talking to her. > [@](#): > > And the father’s statement is directly refuted by him, as you already well know. Yet you persist in presenting it as though it had not been contradicted by him. Why is that? Because his statement immediately after the incident has a lot more validity than weeks after, with all the hoopla around it. > [@](#): > > Do you believe the witness’ suggestion that the interviewing policeman attempted to influence her statement by “correcting” it? If you do, does that strike you as an effort to obtain clear and uninfluenced testimony? The police say that what she says to the press contradicts her sworn testimony. SWORN testimony. Which means she signed it certifying that it’s true. So either she lied in the original testimony, or to the press. In either case that’s a sign of a very unreliable witness. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/303 "2012-03-28T17:10:16Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The alleged injuries to Zimmerman which are being offered as incontestable fact are, in truth, dubious. From the _Miami Herald_, as noted in the ThinkProgress compilation I posted above: > > [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/21/2706876\_p2/sanford-commission-votes-no-confidence.html#storylink=cpy](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/21/2706876_p2/sanford-commission-votes-no-confidence.html#storylink=cpy) > > If you peruse the above referenced set of articles, you find remarkable coincidencea: “facts” that tend to exonerate Zimmerman are not explicitly sourced, they refer to “authorities” or “sources within the police department”, which is to say, leaks. Oddly, no one has “leaked” any photos of Zimmerman’s injuries, or any record of his seeking medical attention. > > Now, its above my pay grade to state that these are facts, as yet, only the scent of cover-up is in the air. And a thorough investigation is in the offing, and I have every confidence it will be pursued. I do note, however, that the “facts” so frequently offered here come in two varieties: the “facts” that show Martin in a harsh light are sourced anonymously (as in “authorities”). For purposes of evidence, they are little more than gossip. > > My tentative conclusion is that there is a cover-up in progress, an effort by the police in this matter to deflect attention from their appalling lack of professional conduct. No photos were taken of Mr Zimmermans injuries? Or they were taken, but somehow everything else leaked, but they did not? He sustained injuries to his head by having his head slammed into the sidewalk, but no effort was made to see if he had concussive injuries? > > Anybody else get the distinct aroma of _eau de rat_? Wow. So, in addition tl rushing to judgement, you are just going to disbelieve anything that doesn’t support Team Trayvon. Absolutely ridiculous. You don’t think that smuggling out a photograph and verbally leaking information are two different things? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/304 "2012-03-28T17:12:52Z")
Why would it need to be “smuggled”? Simply scanned and e-mailed would do the trick, no? They have such technology in Florida. I’m pretty sure. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/305 "2012-03-28T17:20:24Z")
Scanning and emailing is still different than just calling a reporter. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/306 "2012-03-28T17:23:28Z")
But your claim implies that “smuggling” a photo is somehow prohibitively difficult. Yes, they are different. One is a photo. So? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/307 "2012-03-28T17:23:40Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > If that’s all they did, then yes. But from what I understand, they interviewed others besides Zimmerman. And also observed that Zimmerman had wounds on his body which corroborated his story. What proof are there of wounds? Does he have a picture of his broken nose? Hospital records? Even a fucking receipt for bandaid the day after? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/308 "2012-03-28T17:29:42Z")
Luci, you think it is odd that someone leaked information but not a photo. But it’s easy to leak information (someone just has to call a reporter) and hard to leak a photo (someone has to gain access to a photo in a way that allows them to disseminate it). So, the fact that a photo hasn’t been leaked isn’t really odd at all. Also, given your position here, you would no doubt think the photo is faked. I bet we eventually do see a photo, and you won’t mention anything about your little theory here, you’ll be on to new and wilder conspiracy theories. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/309 "2012-03-28T17:31:15Z")
Tog, why do you assume there is no proof of wounds? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/310 "2012-03-28T17:31:52Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Our sister station I was going to ask what you meant by “our” until I realized it was a quote from the linked article. I recommend using quote tags to make this clearer. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/311 "2012-03-28T17:32:39Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > …Because his statement immediately after the incident has a lot more validity than weeks after, with all the hoopla around it… Problem with this. I remember reading about both his initial statement and his contradiction. IIRC, he said that initially he claimed not to be able to recognize the voice due to poor audio quality, but changed his mind when offered a clarified version. But I can find no clear reference to either. Perhaps someone with mad Google skills will help out? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/312 "2012-03-28T17:34:51Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Luci, you think it is odd that someone leaked information but not a photo. But it’s easy to leak information (someone just has to call a reporter) and hard to leak a photo (someone has to gain access to a photo in a way that allows them to disseminate it). So, the fact that a photo hasn’t been leaked isn’t really odd at all. Also, given your position here, you would no doubt think the photo is faked. I bet we eventually do see a photo, and you won’t mention anything about your little theory here, you’ll be on to new and wilder conspiracy theories. Is your opinion about me in any way affected by the fact that you are a blazing asshole? ---
**Author:** ![FredGarven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@FredGarven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FredGarven)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/313 "2012-03-28T17:37:54Z")
I’ll be team Zimmerman. I always like to bet against the majority. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/314 "2012-03-28T17:41:48Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > …Also, given your position here, you would no doubt think the photo is faked. I bet we eventually do see a photo, and you won’t mention anything about your little theory here, you’ll be on to new and wilder conspiracy theories. Just to be clear, yes, I definitely suspect a cover-up here. Note carefully the word “suspect”. If that is a “wild conspiracy theory”, OK. But I don’t hold that to be proven as yet, though I think it will be. When and if it is, I will graciously accept your groveling apology. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/315 "2012-03-28T17:59:59Z")
Luci, I see you are unable to defend your point about the oddness of there being no leaked photo. Why is that? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/316 "2012-03-28T18:18:49Z")
Well, shit, **Randy!** You’ve already poisoned the well. You claim > [@](#): > > …you would no doubt think the photo is faked… Not only do you put words in my mouth and take them out again, you do it in advance ! But here’s the thing: the police here have been very forthcoming it terms of leaking “information” that makes them look better. Such as it is. And a photo of a battered Zimmerman would be pretty major, don’t you think? And you say you believe such a photo exists. Said so here: > [@](#): > > …I bet we eventually do see a photo… And yet it isn’t before us. Now, if you want to claim that they have such a photo, but are totally committed to not releasing half-assed info, fine. Go ahead. But that stands in glaring contradiction to all of the leaked stories which are attributed to “authorities” and “sources in the police department”. My suspicion is that no such photo has been leaked because no such photo exists. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/317 "2012-03-28T18:19:11Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > For one thing, they played those 911 calls to Trayvon’s father and he said the cries were not his son’s. For another, they had an eyewitness report. That is a complete distortion of reality. The audio recording was heavily distorted and he didn’t say that the cries weren’t his son’s, but that he couldn’t identify them. There’s a difference. Later on, when he was able to listen to an audio recording that had been cleared up he was able to identify the cries as coming from his son. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/318 "2012-03-28T18:21:27Z")
Links, **Ibn**! Links! I can’t find one, you apparently have them, please bring! ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/319 "2012-03-28T18:28:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > My suspicion is that no such photo has been leaked because no such photo exists. I concur. Also, according to the Orlando Sentinel reporter who took the leaded information, Zimmerman claimed Martin was on top of him hitting him in the face and slamming him on the pavement for a full minute. I’m not a tough guy, but if I was on top of someone punching them in the face as hard as I could for a full minute, the idea that their injuries would be so minor that the initial police report didn’t even mention them and the person wasn’t taken to the hospital would be ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Annen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/73ab20/32.png) [@Larry\_Annen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Annen)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/320 "2012-03-28T18:37:34Z")
I can’t believe that so many people are willing to let the truth get in the way of some great sensational news media generated hysteria. Come on folks… (I would like use the newest catch phrase and the kids name, which I can’t type here because his name is copyrighted by his parents and I’m not sending them cash-) break out them burning pitchforks~ there is plenty of airtime that needs to be sold. Truth---- we don’t want no stinkin truth _ **we want us a good cause!!!** _ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881.md?page=17)