# Are you Team Trayvon or Team Zimmerman? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881 "2012-03-26T21:27:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/381 "2012-03-29T00:14:20Z")
Sorry colonic, I was asking you to think. I guess I should have known better. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/382 "2012-03-29T00:16:14Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You have to grade him on a curve, he’s really, really fucking stupid. So, you propose to make the rest of just as stupid? I mean, the curve and all. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/383 "2012-03-29T00:17:14Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > The hoodie pics HAVE been widely distributed I would say it depends what you mean and when you mean. At the time Obama made his statement (and probably even today), the mainstream news articles about the case generally did NOT have the hoodie pic. Agreed? > [@](#): > > (not that it should matter). And yet it does seem to matter very much to a lot of people in on “Team Trayvon.” > [@](#): > > I believe that President Obama would have said the same thing regardless, Lol, let’s see if he says it again. > [@](#): > > 1. No, but I’m certainly not sure that any such thing happened, and neither are you. So what if I am not sure? I am not the one who is confidently asserting that I know what happened. You on the other hand asserted that you “don’t believe for a second” that Martin beat up Zimmerman. Are you now abandoning that position? > [@](#): > > 1. I’ve yet to see any actual \*evidence \*that Zimmerman was injured. Perhaps you’d be so kind as to provide it. What do you mean by “actual evidence”? To me, a written statement by a police officer that he witnessed something constitutes “actual evidence.” It may not be conclusive proof, but it certainly qualifies as “actual evidence.” Please answer my question: Are you asserting that the policeman’s statement is a lie? > [@](#): > > The whole reason we’re all arguing about this is the worthlessness of the initial investigation/report, as you’ll recall. How are you so confident that it is “worthless”? Is it the same way that you are confident that a 160 pound, 6 feet tall athlete could never sucker punch and beat up a 240 pound fatty? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/384 "2012-03-29T00:20:30Z")
> [@Mince](#): > > So, you propose to make the rest of just as stupid? I mean, the curve and all. Good point. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/385 "2012-03-29T00:24:08Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > What proof are there of wounds? All I’ve seen is a police report in which the policeman describes wounds. Obviously that is not conclusive proof. On the other hand, it’s reasonable to think there is a pretty good chance that Zimmerman was in fact wounded. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/386 "2012-03-29T00:25:34Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > What do you mean by “actual evidence”? To me, a written statement by a police officer that he witnessed something constitutes “actual evidence.” It may not be conclusive proof, but it certainly qualifies as “actual evidence.” Yes, and isn’t it interesting that the initial police report didn’t mention any injuries? Moreover, wouldn’t that report be trumped by a video of Zimmerman with no apparent marks on either his face or the back of the head trump that? Like the saying goes, “Who are you going to believe? Me, or your lying eyes?” ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/387 "2012-03-29T00:26:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > **Brazzy**? About those corroborating injuries? Are you keeping up? Now, **'luc** , let’s wait until the evidence is all in before jumping to conclusions. How do we know that ABC—one of the prominent faces of the liberal media hydra—\*didn’t \*Photoshop out the blood spatters, nose splints, and skull fractures from that so-called surveillance footage? How do we know that’s even Zimmerman? The Judeo-sodomite Hollywood cabal surely has the means and motive to hire a stand-in… follow the money, is all I’m saying! ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/388 "2012-03-29T00:28:59Z")
> [@](#): > > How do we know that ABC—one of the prominent faces of the liberal media hydra—didn’t Photoshop out the blood spatters, nose splints, and skull fractures from that so-called surveillance footage? How do we know that’s even Zimmerman? The Judeo-sodomite Hollywood cabal surely has the means and motive to hire a stand-in… follow the money, is all I’m saying! Finally it’s all starting to come together and make sense. Thank you dear vegetable for your insights. I sure hope your life isn’t in any danger (well any more danger, being a tasty vegetable and all) for suggesting who might be behind this whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/389 "2012-03-29T00:29:11Z")
> [@legalsnugs](#): > > The [police reports](http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf) state that the officers found Martin face down on the grass with his arms underneath his body. Anyone want to explain how that happened if Zimmerman shot him while Martin was sitting on top of him beating his face in? > > I can’t come up with a plausible scenario for that one. After he is shot, Martin falls all the way to the ground and rolls onto his front in an attempt to keep his lungs from filling with blood. He clutches his hands to his chest in a vain attempt to stop the bleeding. P.S. This is PURE speculation, I have no idea how people normally behave after having been shot in the chest and have just a few seconds to live. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/390 "2012-03-29T00:31:04Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I wish I were surprised at how quickly and easily some of you embrace the version of events you want to believe and argue that people are lying or engaged in a conspiracy when they present contrary evidence. But it’s par for the course around here really. Well at least he said that he “suspects” a conspiracy or cover-up. The people who are sure that they know what happened are the really annoying ones. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/391 "2012-03-29T00:34:26Z")
So the conservative/racist/Rand Rover strategy is going to be something like this: “You have no evidence that Zimmerman is lying!” “We have a lot of evidence. For just one example, he claimed to have been beaten to a bloody pulp, but video of him immediately after the incident shows him without a scratch.” “Where is your evidence? I’m not hearing any evidence. Stop assuming things and give me some evidence!” Repeat for the other 100 pieces of evidence that prove, beyond all doubt, that this person, in cold blood, stalked and executed a black child. But don’t, under any circumstances, ask why Rand Rover and his compatriots are so invested in defending his legal right to do so, or what that implies about their feelings re: black people in general. Because that’s “playing the race card.” ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/392 "2012-03-29T00:46:34Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The police already said it was a chest wound at close range. Then it would seem that him laying face down doesn’t mean much. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/393 "2012-03-29T00:58:11Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Lol, I guess that means you do not have 10 toes. And dropped out of elementary school. … Did I miss **DianaG** ’s big announcement that she’s had her toes, or feet, replaced with Dorrance #5x stainless steel hooks or does this make no sense to everyone else too? CMC fnord! I hope **brazil84** hasn’t jumped on the “[eeny, meeny, miny, moe](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eeny,_meeny,_miny,_moe#Controversial_version)” reference boat. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/394 "2012-03-29T01:00:08Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > All I’ve seen is a police report in which the policeman describes wounds. Obviously that is not conclusive proof. On the other hand, it’s reasonable to think there is a pretty good chance that Zimmerman was in fact wounded. The same police whose chief stepped down, that one? The one where they never arrested him? I realize the video just came out on ABC and you may not have seen it yet, but now that you surely have, maybe you’d like to take back that support of Zimmerman and the police’s accounts? From the beginning, this case has been fishy. Now we get pretty clear video of a surprisingly woundless Zimmerman. Plus, if he really shot Trayvon as he was on top of him punching and grabbing for his gun, you’d think there’d be a little bit more blood on his body. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/395 "2012-03-29T01:11:48Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Sorry colonic, I was asking you to think. I guess I should have known better. I’ve changed my mind. Stick this up your ass: **link:** [DA: No charges](http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/state/report--lead-investigator-wanted-to-arrest-zimmerman-for-shooting-unarmed-teen) **quote from link:** “A lead investigator into the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin wanted to charge neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman with manslaughter, according to a report from ABC News. The news agency said they confirmed the information from ‘multiple sources.’ The state attorney’s office, headed by Norman Wolfinger, told investigator Chris Serino that there was not enough evidence to press charges.” Here’s another: **link:** [DA: No charges 2](http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/source-sanford-police-chief-state-attorney-made-zimmerman-no-charge-call-in-person.php#46882946) **quote from link:** “Sanford police chief Bill Lee, along with Capt. Robert O’Connor, the investigations supervisor, who made the decision to release George Zimmerman on the night of February 26th, after consulting with State Attorney Norman Wolfinger – in person.” Stick it up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/396 "2012-03-29T01:14:13Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > The same police whose chief stepped down, that one? The one where they never arrested him? I realize the video just came out on ABC and you may not have seen it yet, but now that you surely have, maybe you’d like to take back that support of Zimmerman and the police’s accounts? > > From the beginning, this case has been fishy. Now we get pretty clear video of a surprisingly woundless Zimmerman. Plus, if he really shot Trayvon as he was on top of him punching and grabbing for his gun, you’d think there’d be a little bit more blood on his body. Point. I’ve had issues with that “face down hands underneath” thing all along, but too much in the nature of speculation to mention. Now with this video – Somebody’s on top of you and you shoot him point blank in the chest. He collapses on you, presumably. You either roll him off, in which case he winds up on his back, or you push yourself out from under him, in which case he’s face down but almost certainly not with both hands underneath his body. On the other hand if you shoot him while he’s _standing_ in front of you, he might fall any which way, and face down with hands to chest would be logical as anything. Enough armchair detective-ing; it’s kind of silly. Just been bothering me. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/397 "2012-03-29T01:16:09Z")
If he doesn’t see it, it’s not there. Typical conservative “create your own reality” worldview–any paranoid hallucination that a Xanax-addled poster on FreeRepublic or ChimpOut posts is gospel truth and denying it is liberals ignoring inconvenient facts, but things that are sourced directly to named people by multiple independent organizations of actual journalism who identify themselves and have credibility to put on the line are just part of the liberal pro-colored-boy agenda, so citing them only proves your own bias. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/398 "2012-03-29T01:16:23Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > The same police whose chief stepped down, that one? The one where they never arrested him? According to reports, the police wanted to arrest Zimmerman and the prosecutors overruled them. Agree? > [@](#): > > I realize the video just came out on ABC and you may not have seen it yet, but now that you surely have, maybe you’d like to take back that support of Zimmerman and the police’s accounts? You seem to think I’m on “Team Zimmerman,” i.e. that I’ve conclusively made up my mind that Zimmerman is innocent in the same way that others have conclusively made up her mind that he is guilty. That’s just not so. I did see the video and I agree that Zimmerman appears to be uninjured in the video. I agree that this is evidence against him. I will continue to evaluate the evidence with an open mind. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/399 "2012-03-29T01:18:45Z")
At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if the kid was shot in the back and they just lied and said the chest. That’s how untrustworthy these cops are. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/400 "2012-03-29T01:25:06Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I understand that. Therein lies your problem. > > What’s so hard about simply admitting ignorance, sitting back, and letting the system do its thing? So, as a tax lawyer, you know the system includes the IRS. If the system is perfect, why do you have a job? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881.md?page=21)