# Are you Team Trayvon or Team Zimmerman? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881 "2012-03-26T21:27:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/401 "2012-03-29T01:31:01Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > According to reports, the police wanted to arrest Zimmerman and the prosecutors overruled them. Agree? The investigating detective wanted to arrest Zimmerman but the Chief and Captain in charge of investigations may not have. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/402 "2012-03-29T01:31:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Did I miss DianaG’s big announcement that she’s had her toes, or feet, replaced with Dorrance #5x stainless steel hooks or does this make no sense to everyone else too? I think his point is that those characteristics are so uncommon in a population that to assume otherwise of someone (i.e to be agnostic as to whether they had ten toes or finished elementary school) would be absurd. ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/403 "2012-03-29T01:39:24Z")
I tried to view the ABC video, both versions, on my phone and can’t get it, but did read the accompanying article. It says " The initial police report noted that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of the head and nose, and after medical attention it was decided that he was in good enough condition to travel in a police cruiser to the Sanford, Fla., police station for questioning." Keep in mind what you are saying does not exist in the video was, at least, on that initial police report that has been in existence before this came to national light. What is the simplest explanation? You weren’t there, but the police were, and I’m sure we’ll read a paramedic’s report some point. I don’t have a team, and support a calm, rational investigation that is based on as many facts are available. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/404 "2012-03-29T01:42:08Z")
> [@BottledBlondJeanie](#): > > You weren’t there, but the police were, and I’m sure we’ll read a paramedic’s report some point. Actually “there” during the incident: not the police, but the person who said she heard Martin screaming for help and was told by the police to change her story so that it was Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/405 "2012-03-29T01:54:35Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > So the conservative/racist/Rand Rover strategy is going to be something like this: > > “You have no evidence that Zimmerman is lying!” > “We have a lot of evidence. For just one example, he claimed to have been beaten to a bloody pulp, but video of him immediately after the incident shows him without a scratch.” > “Where is your evidence? I’m not hearing any evidence. Stop assuming things and give me some evidence!” > > Repeat for the other 100 pieces of evidence that prove, beyond all doubt, that this person, in cold blood, stalked and executed a black child. But don’t, under any circumstances, ask why Rand Rover and his compatriots are so invested in defending his legal right to do so, or what that implies about their feelings re: black people in general. Because that’s “playing the race card.” You, sir, are a fucking idiot. Let me try to educate your stupid fucking ass. We have a process in this country for determining whether someone has committed a crime. That process is NOT “have someone write some news, have Condescending Robot read that news, ask Condescending Robot whether the accused committed a crime.” Our process involves police making an investigation (and NOT telling everything they know to the general public), convening a grand jury, and going to trial. Anyone who thinks they know the whole story now is a fucking idiot. Also, I have not said anything like what you are attributing to me above. I have said all along from the start that the only non-idiotic thing to do is wait for our process to work. That’s it. And for that simple statement, idiots like you who are so enamoured of your own opinions think I’m part of some big conservative racist blob who want to elect Zimmerman president and kill all black people or something. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/406 "2012-03-29T01:54:42Z")
> [@BottledBlondJeanie](#): > > I tried to view the ABC video, both versions, on my phone and can’t get it, but did read the accompanying article. It says " The initial police report noted that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of the head and nose, and after medical attention it was decided that he was in good enough condition to travel in a police cruiser to the Sanford, Fla., police station for questioning." > > Keep in mind what you are saying does not exist in the video was, at least, on that initial police report that has been in existence before this came to national light. What is the simplest explanation? You weren’t there, but the police were, and I’m sure we’ll read a paramedic’s report some point. > > I don’t have a team, and support a calm, rational investigation that is based on as many facts are available. Actually, that’s not correct, the Miami Herald noted that the initial police report mentioned nothing about any injuries. It was only a later report which claimed that Zimmerman had a bloody nose, scratches and a swollen lip. That said, he doesn’t look remotely like someone who just had his nose broken and had a man sitting astride him punching him in the face and slamming his head into the pavement for a full minute. ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/407 "2012-03-29T01:55:19Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Actually “there” during the incident: not the police, but the person who said she heard Martin screaming for help and was told by the police to change her story so that it was Zimmerman. But you have her and John. Legally, unless the female is familiar with Treyvon’s voice, enough to lay the correct foundation, her testimony isn’t even admissible. There may be some way get it in, but we don’t know enough yet. The identification of “the man in red was on the bottom and being gitby the other man” probably will be admissible. Plus if the man can also say he saw man on bottom’s mouth moving during cries of help might be admissible if man can testify add to that. But we’ll get to see their statements at some point and determine us sworn and when accusation that female witness was coerced and when and how that came to light. I’m not a criminal lawyer, but I think familiarity with the process, statements and evidence ashtrays makes me calmer when it comes to claims like this. It all will out . Sorry for typos, hate new phone. ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/408 "2012-03-29T01:57:01Z")
But Ibn, did you read the report linked here several times? Why can’t you wait to decide? ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/409 "2012-03-29T01:58:33Z")
Bollocks. Until, I can post properly I’ll hush up. Sorry about that gibberish. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/410 "2012-03-29T01:58:52Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You, sir, are a fucking idiot. > > Let me try to educate your stupid fucking ass. We have a process in this country for determining whether someone has committed a crime. That process is NOT “have someone write some news, have Condescending Robot read that news, ask Condescending Robot whether the accused committed a crime.” Our process involves police making an investigation (and NOT telling everything they know to the general public), convening a grand jury, and going to trial. > > Anyone who thinks they know the whole story now is a fucking idiot. > > Also, I have not said anything like what you are attributing to me above. I have said all along from the start that the only non-idiotic thing to do is wait for our process to work. That’s it. And for that simple statement, idiots like you who are so enamoured of your own opinions think I’m part of some big conservative racist blob who want to elect Zimmerman president and kill all black people or something. The process IS NOT working. The police ordered witnesses to change their story, the DA applied a “stand your ground” law intended for self-defense to someone who stalked and accosted his victim, and the murderer was never going to be investigated or charged until the uproar. The ENTIRE ISSUE here is the breakdown and failure of “the process.” Saying that you are just going to bat for legal requirements is BULLSHIT, even before I ask you what the relevance of fake Facebook pictures, dental grills, and empty baggies to George Zimmerman’s due process rights is. Saying you just want the process to work as a reason for ignoring the copious evidence that the process is being corrupted is nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/411 "2012-03-29T02:03:01Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > The process IS NOT working. The police ordered witnesses to change their story, the DA applied a “stand your ground” law intended for self-defense to someone who stalked and accosted his victim, and the murderer was never going to be investigated or charged until the uproar. > > The ENTIRE ISSUE here is the breakdown and failure of “the process.” Saying that you are just going to bat for legal requirements is BULLSHIT, even before I ask you what the relevance of fake Facebook pictures, dental grills, and empty baggies to George Zimmerman’s due process rights is. Saying you just want the process to work as a reason for ignoring the copious evidence that the process is being corrupted is nonsense. What is your evidence that “the police ordered witnesses to change their story”? What is your evidence that “the murderer was never going to be investigated or charged until the uproar”? What is your evidence that “the process is being corrupted”? Also, your second paragraph acts like I personally posted fake facebook pictures and all that other stuff (or that I agree with those who did). Why do you think it’s appropriate to lump me in with those people? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/412 "2012-03-29T02:07:41Z")
> [@BottledBlondJeanie](#): > > But Ibn, did you read the report linked here several times? Why can’t you wait to decide? Which report? The initial one which mentioned no injuries or the later one? ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/413 "2012-03-29T02:10:08Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What is your evidence that “the police ordered witnesses to change their story”? What is your evidence that “the murderer was never going to be investigated or charged until the uproar”? What is your evidence that “the process is being corrupted”? Rolleyes… > [@](#): > > So the conservative/racist/Rand Rover strategy is going to be something like this: > > “You have no evidence that Zimmerman is lying!” > “We have a lot of evidence. For just one example, he claimed to have been beaten to a bloody pulp, but video of him immediately after the incident shows him without a scratch.” > “Where is your evidence? I’m not hearing any evidence. Stop assuming things and give me some evidence!” > > Repeat for the other 100 pieces of evidence that prove, beyond all doubt, that this person, in cold blood, stalked and executed a black child. But don’t, under any circumstances, ask why Rand Rover and his compatriots are so invested in defending his legal right to do so, or what that implies about their feelings re: black people in general. Because that’s “playing the race card.” > [@](#): > > Also, your second paragraph acts like I personally posted fake facebook pictures and all that other stuff (or that I agree with those who did). Why do you think it’s appropriate to lump me in with those people? Because, like them, you are hellbent on insisting that the ever-increasing pile of evidence that this was a racist execution covered up by white supremacist police and DAs doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/414 "2012-03-29T02:12:57Z")
Rare footage from a [videotaped interview](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc2o8ywKqos)of **Rand Rover**. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/415 "2012-03-29T02:15:27Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Rolleyes… > > Because, like them, you are hellbent on insisting that the ever-increasing pile of evidence that this was a racist execution covered up by white supremacist police and DAs doesn’t matter. “Pile of evidence” my ass. All you have is supposition and inference born of your belief system. That, my idiotic friend, is a very far cry from evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/416 "2012-03-29T02:17:02Z")
I don’t understand how this is not a murder charge. On what basis did the State AG order his release on that night? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/417 "2012-03-29T02:18:35Z")
I expected [this to be the interview](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIPD8qHhtVU). ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/418 "2012-03-29T02:19:02Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > “Pile of evidence” my ass. All you have is supposition and inference born of your belief system. That, my idiotic friend, is a very far cry from evidence. … > [@](#): > > So the conservative/racist/Rand Rover strategy is going to be something like this: > > “You have no evidence that Zimmerman is lying!” > “We have a lot of evidence. For just one example, he claimed to have been beaten to a bloody pulp, but video of him immediately after the incident shows him without a scratch.” > “Where is your evidence? I’m not hearing any evidence. Stop assuming things and give me some evidence!” > > Repeat for the other 100 pieces of evidence that prove, beyond all doubt, that this person, in cold blood, stalked and executed a black child. But don’t, under any circumstances, ask why Rand Rover and his compatriots are so invested in defending his legal right to do so, or what that implies about their feelings re: black people in general. Because that’s “playing the race card.” ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/419 "2012-03-29T02:19:48Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Which report? > > The initial one which mentioned no injuries or the later one? Why this fascination with an “initial report” and a “later” or “supplemental” report? Seems to me that two different police officers submitted reports, and they didn’t do so at the same time. Some people have decided that if it’s not in the report submitted first, then that means it doesn’t count. But what if it was reversed–if a description of Zimmerman’s injuries were in the first report and not the second report? No doubt you would be claiming that there really must not have been any injuries if they didn’t show up in the later report. You would say the later report is the one to believe because there was more time to write it, so it must have been more complete and thorough. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/420 "2012-03-29T02:21:21Z")
Condescending Robot, you are doing an excellent job of demonstrating your side’s usual tactics–just shouting down other people and repeating the same bullshit and hoping it sticks. Reminds me of “MIC CHECK! MIC CHECK! MIC CHECK!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881.md?page=22)