# Are you Team Trayvon or Team Zimmerman? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881 "2012-03-26T21:27:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/481 "2012-03-29T16:08:15Z")
> [@BottledBlondJeanie](#): > > May I ask a serious question of those of you who are way way in the Trayvon camp? Now that this whole thing is exposed to this much national attention, why rush to judgment? Why not wait a bit for this all to sort out, and then decide guilt if you must? Who does it hurt for you to take a measure approach to this? Well, we have all these pitchforks and this nice rope all ready to go. And geeze the torches ain’t going to burn forever you know. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/482 "2012-03-29T16:10:58Z")
Listen, I see this very simply. 1. Zimmerman sees a “suspicious” person. 2. Zimmerman calls authorities. 3. **Dispatcher asks Zimmerman if he is following “suspicious” person. Zimmerman responds in the affirmative. Dispatcher states "We don’t need you to do that."** Anything that happened after step 3 is wholly Zimmerman’s fault. He did his due diligence (and I have problems with that, but whatever) and was ordered to stop following Martin. He elected to disregard this instruction so everything that happened from that point on is entirely his maverick behavior. Let me tell you something. I am a 6’ Black man. I am not big or imposing. But if someone is following me, quite obviously, my senses are going to be on high alert and I am going to be in fight or flight mode. The level of anxiety that Martin must have felt, I can’t imagine. Why is someone following you when you’ve done nothing wrong? Are they going to try to assault you or rob you? The irony is, Martin was likely “standing his ground” as he felt threatened by this wannabe cop. Another ironic point? Zimmerman was arrested a few years ago for assaulting a police officer. What if that officer had decided to use deadly force on Zimmerman? Obviously cooler heads prevailed. It’s a real tragedy that Zimmerman didn’t take that lesson to heart. ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/483 "2012-03-29T16:20:06Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Why post on a topic about which you have no opinion? I’m a bit freaked out by the opinions of people ready to convict with a dearth of actual facts. I guess I’m on the bench with those who believe innocent until proven guilty. I do understand those who would like to see prosecution. I can get that. Because this is like trial in the court of public opinion, and a decision of “guilty” right now with scant facts makes me uncomfortable. And, I like to learn about how this works to update my technique for weeding out people like that on my jury. Also, I think it is terrible that Trayvon died. I am also a gun owner, and cannot even imagine how I would feel if I were Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/484 "2012-03-29T16:22:03Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Funny that the EMT didn’t put a bandage on this bizarrely invisible Marianas trench of a gash when they “treated” him. Poor Zimmerman. It must have been hell sleeping that night, with so much exposed skull coming in contact with his pillowcase! I admire your tirelessless, it would never have occurred to me that there’s any reason on earth to address an admittedly altered image from The Daily fucking Caller. That said, that mark didn’t look especially like a wound to me, certainly not a fresh one. Much more interesting is the utter lack of grass stains or blood on Zimmerman’s clothes. Funny that \*\*brazil \*\*didn’t notice. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/485 "2012-03-29T16:28:58Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Apparently there were no signs of injury to Martin’s hands per the funeral director - > > [http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/03/28/funeral-director-saw-no-signs-fight-trayvons-hands](http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/03/28/funeral-director-saw-no-signs-fight-trayvons-hands) > > How does one beat someone up to the point of feeling threatened with death and have nothing to show on his hands? > > hmm. He had some **Skittles**. Have you never been hit with some of those damned things? I’m guessing you haven’t or you’d know how lethal they are. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/486 "2012-03-29T16:33:06Z")
Are you implying that Trayvon tried to make Zimmerman taste the rainbow? ---
**Author:** ![Schyler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Schyler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schyler)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/487 "2012-03-29T16:39:03Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > If the system had done its thing properly inf the first place, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. The whole business has a Keystone Kopps feeling to it. And as You With the Face pointed out, that videotape of The Idiot shown on ABC (yeah, I saw it too) sure didn’t show a man who had just suffered serious injuries in a desperate fight for his life. How could you tell. My grandkids could probably have photoshopped a video just like that. The video was grainy. And when was the video taken I wonder. I’m for team Justice, and letting a Judge and Jury decide, but if the photo was taken 3 or 4 hours after the incident would it matter? It would to me. I think it would to the Judge and Jurry. And also, another thing discussed on CNN last night was an interview with a friend of Trayvon’s parents. I’m just speaking as a grandparent myself, but if my kid got thrown out of school for any reason (hello! School is really important) my kid would be in his room grounded without Iphone, toys, and computers for a really long while instead of out on the streets buying skittles. ---
**Author:** ![Schyler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Schyler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schyler)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/488 "2012-03-29T16:40:29Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > If the system had done its thing properly inf the first place, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. The whole business has a Keystone Kopps feeling to it. And as You With the Face pointed out, that videotape of The Idiot shown on ABC (yeah, I saw it too) sure didn’t show a man who had just suffered serious injuries in a desperate fight for his life. How could you tell. My grandkids could probably have photoshopped a video just like that. The video was grainy. And when was the video taken I wonder. I’m for team Justice, and letting a Judge and Jury decide, but if the photo was taken 3 or 4 hours after the incident would it matter? It would to me. I think it would to the Judge and Jury. And also, another thing discussed on CNN last night was an interview with a friend of Trayvon’s parents. I’m just speaking as a grandparent myself, but if my kid got thrown out of school for any reason (hello! School is really important) my kid would be in his room grounded without Iphone, toys, and computers for a really long while instead of out on the streets buying skittles. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/489 "2012-03-29T16:41:14Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Anyway, some of the claims about the case apparently come from the Martin family’s attorney, for example the claim that he was just out to get a snack. So if Martin’s mother turns out to be a cold-hearted mercenary bitch, it casts a bit of doubt her lawyer’s claims. Thanks for the heads up on where you fucktards are going to go next. I appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/490 "2012-03-29T16:42:31Z")
Blaming the parents for not grounding him? Well, it’s better than blaming a hoodie, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/491 "2012-03-29T16:44:44Z")
No it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/492 "2012-03-29T16:45:56Z")
> [@Schyler](#): > > How could you tell. My grandkids could probably have photoshopped a video just like that. Jesus Christ. Yeah, totally couldn’t see that coming. :rolleyes: The desperation to sweep this under the carpet is disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/493 "2012-03-29T16:47:39Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Thanks for the heads up on where you fucktards are going to go next. I appreciate it. Lol you are welcome. By the way, is there anyone here who is on “Team Zimmerman,” i.e. is there anyone who has made up his mind that Zimmerman is innocent? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/494 "2012-03-29T16:48:05Z")
Erm… who is this Schyler douchenozzle? I don’t remember every noticing him before, and SA has been surprisingly absent from this discussion. Nah, never mind. His posts are at least as stupid, but not long enough. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/495 "2012-03-29T16:53:17Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > Listen, I see this very simply. > > 1. Zimmerman sees a “suspicious” person. > 2. Zimmerman calls authorities. > 3. **Dispatcher asks Zimmerman if he is following “suspicious” person. Zimmerman responds in the affirmative. Dispatcher states “We don’t need you to do that.”** Add in 1. Martin was unarmed. 2. Zimmerman shot and killed Martin. and to me that is absolutely all you need to know about this case to hold Zimmerman responsible for this case. I hate when people view a complex issue as a simple one; I’ve had Og knows how many threads where I’ve gone pages and pages arguing with people who see slave owners in the U.S., or Germans who did not speak out against Nazism, or whether Leslie Van Houten’s parole, as automatically simple open-shut “absolute morality applies” cases- I’m really not inclined to viewing things as (no racial meaning intended) black and white. But there is nothing that could come to light about Martin that could make his death seem remotely necessary or excusable. IF Martin attacked Zimmerman he was justified: he was breaking no law and an armed man confronted him demanding to know his business and Zimmerman had no reason to approach him in the first place. IF Martin was the biggest bully in the history of Florida schools, Zimmerman wasn’t a student at/didn’t know him from that school and he wasn’t bullying anybody when Zimmerman saw him and Zimmerman had no reason to approach him in the first place. IF Martin had the highest blood alchol level possible for a living adult and was under the influence of 18 different illegal substances, Zimmerman did not know it and had already phoned it in and had no reason to approach him in the first place. IF Martin had COP KILLER tattooed across his chest and a blog called ‘[GonnaRobAndKillTilTheyStopMe.com](http://GonnaRobAndKillTilTheyStopMe.com)’ Zimmerman had no way of knowing this (and both in fact would be perfectly legal) and had no reason to approach him in the first place. IF Martin had just killed two homeless men just to watch 'em die at the convenience store 5 minutes before Zimmerman saw him, Zimmerman still had no reason to approach him in the first place. These are all absolutely absurd over-the-top things that really and truly would not exonerate Zimmerman. None are remotely close to the truth, which is that Zimmerman took his gun and approached an unarmed kid who wasn’t trespassing. (Whether his gunw as visible or not at the time, I don’t know, but it doesn’t much matter since he damned sure pulled it out when the time came, and completely unnecessary.) If Zimmerman is protected by Stand Your Ground, why wasn’t Martin? He also stood his ground. I just wish he’d stood it with one hell of a lot more force. Frankly I wish that Martin _had_ been armed and up to no good, at least then this would be a bit less senseless and his death a tad less infuriating. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/496 "2012-03-29T16:55:24Z")
> [@Schyler](#): > > I’m just speaking as a grandparent myself, but if my kid got thrown out of school for any reason (hello! School is really important) my kid would be in his room grounded without Iphone, toys, and computers for a really long while instead of out on the streets buying skittles. Well, the little bastard had it coming, didn’t he? Be happy he’s dead, because that will show kids to stay in school. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/497 "2012-03-29T16:56:27Z")
dup ---
**Author:** ![Schyler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Schyler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schyler)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/498 "2012-03-29T16:58:22Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Thank you, although I’m not sure I’m worthy, I’m too pissed off to be truly persuasive. By the way, don’t let this alter your opinion of LP, he’s not exactly itching to jump to the defense of an off-white guy named Zimmerman. All not-white is pretty much the same to him. > No. The mainstream media generally has access to facebook. > Are you trying to unseat Clothy and ralphrandomnumbers as the SDMB’s stupidest poster? > Pretty fucking confident, even before the video that made a laughingstock of you and everyone who shares your worthless opinion. What if CNN says Zimmerman is 5’8" and 190 instead??? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/499 "2012-03-29T16:58:47Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > … for example the claim that he was just out to get a snack… WTF is\* that \*supposed to mean? The “claim” he was “just out to get a snack”? Huh? What? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/500 "2012-03-29T16:59:10Z")
> [@Schyler](#): > > What if CNN says Zimmerman is 5’8" and 190 instead??? That’s alright then. It’s _fat_ vigilantes shooting unarmed kids that I have a problem with. Short and just stocky? I admire the gumption. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881.md?page=26)