# Are you Team Trayvon or Team Zimmerman? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881 "2012-03-26T21:27:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/61 "2012-03-27T03:27:12Z")
A gated community. Family probably moved there because it was safer. And where in the world does Zimmerman live where a young black man walking in public is even interesting, much less suspicious? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/62 "2012-03-27T03:33:27Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > He stalked the kid through the dark. Even just Zimmerman’s and 911’s account shows someone who’d creep me the hell out if I were in Martin’s place. > > And hearsay? She was on the god damn phone with him through a bluetooth device for much of it. She even encourage Martin to run. We can’t ask Martin if if he was scared because a bloodthirsty gun nut murdered him. Her testimony is of a very scared individual. > > Even just Zimmerman’s account alone shows an aggressive individual. > > Again I ask what did the dead kid do that was so suspicious? Please answer this question. Your last question is irrelevant to me, as this is the first time I’ve seen it, and I’ve never said that he was acting suspiciously. I believe that he was wrongly killed and that the shooter should probably be indicted for manslaughter, but without a case, the cops would be stupid to arrest him. “He stalked the kid…” Is this proof of murder? Is this an offense? Are you really sure he was ‘stalking’ him, or just following him? How would you or the police know if it was one or the other? How would you (or the police) know there was any intent to harm him by this action? His “account … shows an aggressive individual”. Okay, and so what? Is this something you can arrest a man for? You are again referring to her statement as incontrovertible fact, when it’s just her word against the shooter’s. Try to look at what happened through the eyes of an investigating officer instead of your own prejudices. Would you have enough information to arrest the man? For what? Would it make it through the DA’s office? > [@](#): > > Madmonk: I’m surprised by the number of people who don’t see anything threatening in Zimmerman’s behavior. Are you saying that if you were walking home and some random guy with a gun got out and asked you who you were and what you were doing, it wouldn’t bother you, or seem threatening? Sigh. Once again, I’m not defending the guy. I’m just saying try to look at it from an arresting cop’s and DA’s point of view. The kid quite likely felt threatened, and the shooter quite likely wrongly killed him. Proving it is another matter. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/63 "2012-03-27T03:37:06Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Oh, you know him personally then? Or is this just reaction to all the media blitz going on and all the people calling for his arrest, regardless of any sufficient evidence to arrest the guy? > > He has a right to due process, just like any other citizen. The DA is not going to allow an arrest without enough evidence to indict the guy. If they do, and he goes to trial, he will walk. The family is grieving and lashing out, wanting an arrest. If they (and you) were thinking rationally, they would understand why there hasn’t been one. Whether or not he’s an asshole cop wannabe or just someone who used poor judgment has yet to be shown, and all those screaming for his blood ought to cool their jets. I didn’t realize what a good tool this thread would be for identifying HOF fuckheads. Congrats on your induction cheffy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/64 "2012-03-27T03:44:34Z")
Whazza “HOF fuckhead”? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/65 "2012-03-27T03:47:37Z")
Hall of fame fuckhead, I think. I hear **colonial** is the only member, but as the sole vote on the nominating committee he’s very excited about organizing a second round of inductions. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/66 "2012-03-27T03:53:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Hall of fame fuckhead, I think. I hear **colonial** is the only member, but as the sole vote on the nominating committee he’s very excited about organizing a second round of inductions. Well, as long as Mark McGwire doesn’t get in, I guess I’m all right with that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/67 "2012-03-27T03:59:49Z")
There’s a Fuckhead Hall of Fame? And **Chefguy** is in it? Shit, on his strongest fuckhead day, I doubt he even registers 200 milli **Starkers**! ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/68 "2012-03-27T04:01:58Z")
I don’t know what happened. It is possible Zimmerman really was ambushed on his way back to the truck after checking a street sign (assuming the body was found close to the truck, which I don’t know). I doubt it, but it is possible. But to me Zimmerman was already in the wrong just by what we do know for sure. We know he took a gun with him and went out following Trayvon. We know Trayvon ran away and Zimmerman kept after him despite the cops saying they didn’t need him to. Legally that may all be fine, but he unnecessarily created a dangerous situation with the knowledge that he was armed and that it could end in someone getting dead. He isn’t a cop and to me he shouldn’t have done that. He probably also started the physical altercation, either by brandishing his weapon or trying to detain Trayvon for the cops physically, and he probably shot Trayvon without attempting to escape (thinking as he did that Trayvon was a messed up possibly armed criminal), and he probably made up the ridiculous story that he was just checking a street sign (which doesn’t seem to match up to what I’ve read about where the body was located). But all that I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/69 "2012-03-27T04:04:27Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > As a thought experiment to decide whether it’s reasonable at this time to come to a conclusion against Zimmerman. > > Or have you already made up your mind that Zimmerman is a liar? Zimmerman is a racist thug who shot a 17-year-old to death who was simply out purchasing a bag of skittles so only a complete moron would expect him to not lie if he murdered Trayvon. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/70 "2012-03-27T04:05:09Z")
> [@](#): > > …and he probably made up the ridiculous story that he was just checking a street sign… Wait a sec, back that tape back up to “checking a street sign”? Where does that come from? NSII (no snark implied or intended), but cite? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/71 "2012-03-27T04:05:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Zimmerman is a racist thug who shot a 17-year-old to death who was simply out purchasing a bag of skittles so only a complete moron would expect him to not lie if he murdered Trayvon. …and if he didn’t? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/72 "2012-03-27T04:06:39Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Yeah, actually. I don’t believe for a second that a 140lb kid armed with a bag of skittles beat him up. Call me crazy. > > ETA that Zimmerman’s defenders seem determined to disregard the fact that there was no fucking reason on earth for him to bother that kid. If he can’t fend off a 140lb kid WITHOUT a gun, he needs to not harass the kid. If he HAD gotten his face beat in, he’d have deserved it, and the kid still wouldn’t deserve to get shot. How does a 240 pound fatty catch a 17 year old football player? I don’t get how people aren’t seeing this. Martin had a 2 minute head start to get to his house ~500 feet away. The only way a confrontation happens is if Martin wanted it to. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/73 "2012-03-27T04:08:22Z")
Where does it say he was “500 feet” from his home? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/74 "2012-03-27T04:09:15Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I don’t get how people aren’t seeing this. Martin had a 2 minute head start to get to his house ~500 feet away. The only way a confrontation happens is if Martin wanted it to. If he stood his ground, then? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/75 "2012-03-27T04:10:22Z")
> [@treis](#): > > How does a 240 pound fatty catch a 17 year old football player?.. He doesn’t. He leaves him the fuck alone and minds his own goddam business, because he has no reason whatsoever to “catch” anybody! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/76 "2012-03-27T04:12:08Z")
> [@treis](#): > > How does a 240 pound fatty catch a 17 year old football player? > > I don’t get how people aren’t seeing this. Martin had a 2 minute head start to get to his house ~500 feet away. The only way a confrontation happens is if Martin wanted it to. These kids and their low-hanging pants! Can’t run from even the fattest vigilante wannabe. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/77 "2012-03-27T04:15:25Z")
> [@treis](#): > > How does a 240 pound fatty catch a 17 year old football player? 1. If Zimmerman was initially following Trayvon in a truck, which agrees with the known facts, Trayvon may have gotten off the road to wait for the coast to clear. Trucks can drive. 2. Ever been scared? Sometimes you get the urge to confront your fear and find it wasn’t as bad as you thought. Like you might ask the person following you “why are you following me?” and they might give you a decent reason and then you sigh in relief and feel much better. Or they might refuse to answer and shoot you instead. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/78 "2012-03-27T04:29:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Hall of fame fuckhead, I think. I hear **colonial** is the only member, but as the sole vote on the nominating committee he’s very excited about organizing a second round of inductions. The Nominating Committee has several members, all drawn from best debaters All-Star Team. There have been many HOF fuckhead classes prior to the Class of 2012, and I recall your nitwit username well enough to be able to assure you that you were admitted by unanimous vote long ago. ---
**Author:** ![Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emtar_KronJonDerSohn)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/79 "2012-03-27T04:29:10Z")
I think it’s indicative of what great progress we have made as a society that we are now so eager to lynch a non-black person. Fuck justice, we need reparations. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/80 "2012-03-27T04:30:02Z")
> [@](#): > > …assure you that you were admitted by unanimous vote long ago. Better have a statue of me in the hall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881.md?page=5)