# Are you Team Trayvon or Team Zimmerman? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881 "2012-03-26T21:27:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/101 "2012-03-27T07:20:53Z")
Its looking like a lot of the confusion here is due to “unofficial” leaks, mostly from a police department looking more and more like a CYA hysteria. Winger sites are full of shocking information about Martin’s thug life, etc. that appear to emanate from anonymous sources and are passed along as news. For instance, who hasn’t heard about Zimmerman’s “broken nose”? According to who, a broken nose? Was he treated for a broken nose? Where? By what doctor? Any pictures taken of his broken nose? And pictures of his battered head, slammed repeatedly into the sidewalk? Any treatment for that? His bloodstained clothes, tagged and bagged for evidence? Disinformation is spewing from this situation like a lanced boil. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/102 "2012-03-27T07:23:52Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Considering the fact that Zimmerman has put out two dramatically different versions of the events only a racist or a complete moron would lend any credence to his claims. Case in point: has Zimmerman actually made any statements? Seems to me that his “statements” turn out to be excerpts from police reports that are not yet officially available, hence, “leaked”. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/103 "2012-03-27T07:36:32Z")
I still marvel at people who haven’t figured out that you can make an initial judgment based on what little we already know, and that can’t understand that you can both derive character from someone’s explanations of what happened, and use that derived character to aid you in determining which story you believe. There really are only two choices. Either Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman, or Zimmerman assaulted Trayvon. And, based on the stories we’ve heard, Zimmerman seems more like the assaulting type. The only “evidence” that Trayvon is that type of person is that he’s black, less affluent, and was walking around at night, while the “evidence” against Zimmerman keeps piling up. Is it possible there is some evidence out there that negates all this? Sure. Anything is possible. But, so far, all the new “evidence” has been agreeing with my initial conclusion. Why should I sit back and pretend like I haven’t already drawn a conclusion? I’m not a juror. I don’t need to be impartial. It’s not like it actually matters if I’m wrong. Plus, even if this guy turns out to be innocent, it’s a very good thing that any potential criminals who want to use that fact to try to get away with murder will know that they will have to go through a lot of crap to do so. If it also discourages people from confronting suspected criminals after calling the cops on them, even better. I think we can all agree that Zimmerman is at least guilty of egregious stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/104 "2012-03-27T08:50:09Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > God, some of the people posting here are revealing themselves to be racist, hateful fucks. It’s good to know for future reference. Are you on the neighborhood watch of the bulletin board patrolling for suspicious characters? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/105 "2012-03-27T08:53:11Z")
Anybody called George Zimmerman is probably too boring to live. _George_, for Murgatroyd’s sake? Whatever his parents were thinking, surely he should have changed it to a nickname by now! 🆒😛 ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/106 "2012-03-27T09:00:44Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > They were thinking that they loved their son and that they would be able to watch him grow into adulthood and raise a family of his own. :rolleyes: So, if I’d hung equal shit on Zimmerman, I’d be chastised for being anti-semitic, right?? :rolleyes: **madmonk** , this thread (in my understanding) is NOT devoted to looking at evidence or politics or any other such thing to come to a side-picking outcome. IOW, it’s a **joke thread** dude. You can choose any reason you like to support either side…and I reckon both Trayvon and Zimmerman are sucky names. But Trayvon gets himself over the line by a whisker. 😃 Oh, btw, in REAL LIFE, I reckon Zimmerman needs to get himself a good lawyer and a bloody good defense team. Here in Australia, he’d be chucked away into jail for a goodly term. And rightly so. Sounds to me (from all the reports here in Aus and on the internet) that he’s a righteous arsehole. YMMV etc ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/107 "2012-03-27T09:13:21Z")
I think this focus on the idea that Zimmerman is a raging racist is misplaced. Yes, I think he profiled Trayvon as potentially criminal because he was black. I also think that that isn’t evidence of some raging racism, nor is it really all that unusual - as I said in the other thread, I think we are all bombarded with negative imagry of young black males and we’re human. Zimmerman’s profiling of Trayvon is just one fucked up element to the whole George Zimmerman is a Dangerously Deluded Asshole picture. What’s much more disturbing is this law and the support for his behavior under this law. Also more disturbing is the cop’s willingness to buy Zimmerman’s story which I do think is a problem that smacks of racism in a manner more troubling than Zimmerman’s because it’s part of the system. SYG or not, from what we know so far they were a little too ready to believe Zimmerman and too ready to dismiss Trayvon as worthless. And THAT is where the racism is upsetting. It’s the same reason Joe Horn’s behavior being given a pass was so repulsive: it was because of who he shot. In other words, comes down to gun love, not racism. The people who love their guns and want to be able to walk around with holsters on each hip are the ones who think Zimmerman’s behavior makes sense, not KKK members. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/108 "2012-03-27T09:17:16Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > :You can choose any reason you like to support either side…and I reckon both Trayvon and Zimmerman are sucky names. I sure am glad we finally got an explanation of how the hispanic guy is named Zimmerman… ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/109 "2012-03-27T09:40:36Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I sure am glad we finally got an explanation of how the hispanic guy is named Zimmerman… Y’see? That’s why this thread is meant to be a parody thingy. In Australia (where I live) anyone with the surname of Zimmerman is going to be of Jewish roots, not from South America. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/110 "2012-03-27T09:44:15Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > That Zimmerman guy is a world record asshole, and anyone who sticks up for him is totally fucked up. Thanks. Saves time typing. Fuck Zimmerman & his “supporters.” ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/111 "2012-03-27T10:53:24Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > God, some of the people posting here are revealing themselves to be racist, hateful fucks. It’s good to know for future reference. I guess you don’t go in much for satire, eh? That’s good to know for, you know, future reference. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/112 "2012-03-27T11:14:22Z")
This whole thing stinks. Trayvon Martin is walking home from 7-11 and sees a strange man following him in a truck. George Zimmerman is driving around in his truck and sees a strange person walking so he decides to follow him. In his initial report, Zimmerman gets out of his truck after losing Trayvon. A confrontation follows with Trayvon punching George in the face and knocking him over. George then shoots Trayvon in self defense and this is when things get messy with varying witness reports. What I have problems with is that technically both of them could be using the Stand Your Ground law. Trayvon attacked a strange man that was following him. Zimmerman fired shots at a suspicious kid who was attacking him. That if Zimmerman was a cop, he’d likely be held accountable for this but since he isn’t there seems to be no legal recourse. The SYG law seems to give extralegal powers to mere schlubs with weapons. South Park and “They’re coming right for us!” As long as you feel threatened, it’s open season. And what I really really really really really have a problem with (really) is that in all this anger at Zimmerman and accusations of racism and impassioned cries for justice, we’re mainly looking at the symptom (Zimmerman) and not the cause (Stand Your Ground). ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/113 "2012-03-27T11:29:15Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I don’t know…do you? Following the kid is not a crime. Disregarding instructions is not a crime. Ignoring the kid’s requests is not a crime. The kid’s girlfriend. . .really? So hearsay is now proof? So what exactly in any of that provides the burden of proof necessary for a conviction? I’m not defending the shooter; I’m just saying that the baying hounds need to dial down the rhetoric, and let the cops do their investigation thoroughly before making a bad bust. Yeah, because there’s NO circumstance where hearsay can be used as evidence. None at all. Except if the person making the statement was dead or something, and it was something he was saying at the time the incident occurred. That would be different, of course. But what are the chances of that being the case? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/114 "2012-03-27T11:57:19Z")
If one is punched, or even beaten, shooting the person administering the beating is hardly a proportionate response. That said, Roy Zimmerman is awesome. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/115 "2012-03-27T12:30:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > There’s a Fuckhead Hall of Fame? There is! Interestingly enough, also located in Cleveland. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/116 "2012-03-27T12:32:35Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Zimmerman is the vampire cause that’d be the only reason someone would volunteer to drive around at night looking for thugs, Trayvon is the werewolf because that is **the only possible way a 140 lb. kid could lay wood on a man driving a car**. He attacked him with his penis?! ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/117 "2012-03-27T12:51:29Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > [Here’s](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager) what is apparently Zimmerman’s account of what happened. > > Assuming that’s true, it was probably justifiable for him to defend himself with deadly force. > > Of course, it’s possible that Zimmerman was lying or exaggerating. But it’s bit early to make that call. The problem I’ve got is that Zimmerman provoked the incident which led directly to the death of a human being. IANAL, but an investigation for a possible charge of manslaughter would seem to be in order here. I have to agree the police were much too quick to dismiss the case as self-defense. Trayvon doesn’t come across as an angel here, either. He followed Martin back to his car and threw the first punch. He should have had the good sense to just walk away and let Zimmerman go on pretending to be Dirty Harry. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/118 "2012-03-27T12:55:13Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I’m surprised by the number of people who don’t see anything threatening in Zimmerman’s behavior. Are you saying that if you were walking home and some random guy with a gun got out and asked you who you were and what you were doing, it wouldn’t bother you, or seem threatening? Wa the weapon clearly visible? I seem to recall that Zimmerman (hereinafter referred to as The Idiot) had a permit to carry a concealed weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/119 "2012-03-27T13:21:09Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I’m surprised by the number of people who don’t see anything threatening in Zimmerman’s behavior. Are you saying that if you were walking home and some random guy with a gun got out and asked you who you were and what you were doing, it wouldn’t bother you, or seem threatening? If I were walking someplace and someone asked me my business, I would be entirely within my rights to tell him to blow it out his ass and keep walking. He would **not** be within his rights to interfere with my walking in any way. He would **not** be within his rights to threaten me with the gun. I would **not** be within my rights to attack him. If I did attack him, and knocked him down, and sat on his chest pounding his face, it is entirely possible that he would be within his rights to shoot me. We don’t know if that’s how it went down. The conclusion is obvious, therefore - Zimmerman should spend the rest of his life in prison. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/120 "2012-03-27T13:22:36Z")
Jesus Christ. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > The problem I’ve got is that Zimmerman provoked the incident which led directly to the death of a human being. IANAL, but an investigation for a possible charge of manslaughter would seem to be in order here. I have to agree the police were much too quick to dismiss the case as self-defense. > > Trayvon doesn’t come across as an angel here, either. He followed Martin back to his car and threw the first punch. He should have had the good sense to just walk away and let Zimmerman go on pretending to be Dirty Harry. I… Fuck. I agree with **Lonesome Polecat**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881.md?page=7)