# Are you Team Trayvon or Team Zimmerman? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881 "2012-03-26T21:27:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/161 "2012-03-27T16:36:08Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Actually no, as I understand it the whole point of the law is that if you have an avenue of escape you are not required to take it, hence the name 'Stand your ground". I am talking about someone who initiated the physical confrontation. THAT person, according to the law, does have that requirement. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/162 "2012-03-27T16:37:10Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Everything I’ve read indicates Zimmerman was in the wrong. At the least, he stalked Trayvon after police instructed him not to. The police didn’t “instruct him not to”. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/163 "2012-03-27T16:41:41Z")
> [@](#): > > I would say it depends on what the provocation is. In England, provocation is not a mitigating factor. Not really relevant, but yeah. Roy Zimmerman is a musician. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/164 "2012-03-27T16:47:52Z")
Also, excellent post steronz. You channeling Ignatius C. Reilly there? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/165 "2012-03-27T16:49:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The police didn’t “instruct him not to”. > [@](#): > > Dispatcher: “Are you following him?” > Zimmerman: “Yeah.” > Dispatcher: “OK. We don’t need you to do that. What’s your name?” > … > Dispatcher: “What’s your apartment number?” > Zimmerman: “It’s a home. … I don’t want to give that out. I don’t know who this kid is.” In _logic_ “We don’t need you to do …” is quite different from “We need you not to do …” But _in English idiom_ … not so much. Intriguing that a private citizen who feels he has the right to demand a stranger provide details is unwilling to give his address to police. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/166 "2012-03-27T16:55:04Z")
If Trayvon Martin blinked and revealed onyx eyes indicative of demonic possession, and then with supernatural demon strength handlessly hurled Zimmerman twenty feet away while chanting “The Year Is One”, I would then possibly consider Zimmerman only _half_ responsible. Not a rhetorical question: what is a conceivable scenario in which an unarmed kid deserves to be shot to death? ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/167 "2012-03-27T16:55:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > We don’t know for a fact that Zimmerman provoked the fight. And a neighborhood watch captain stopping an unfamiliar teen-ager and asking him his business (if that is what happened) does not constitute provoking a fight. > > Regards, > Shodan The neighborhood watch captain has no more authority than the neighborhood pedo. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/168 "2012-03-27T16:59:59Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > In _logic_ “We don’t need you to do …” is quite different from “We need you not to do …” But _in English idiom_ … not so much. In English “Don’t do it” and “I don’t need you to do it” carries completely different meaning. > [@](#): > > Intriguing that a private citizen who feels he has the right to demand a stranger provide details is unwilling to give his address to police. 😕 911 dispatchers are not “police”. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/169 "2012-03-27T17:02:17Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Whatever team you’re on, can we all agree that the police should have handled this thing with a bit more scrutiny than “lets just believe the shooter”? If that’s all they did, then yes. But from what I understand, they interviewed others besides Zimmerman. And also observed that Zimmerman had wounds on his body which corroborated his story. Where are you getting the idea that the police simply accepted Zimmerman’s story without doing other investigation? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/170 "2012-03-27T17:05:13Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > We don’t know for a fact that Zimmerman provoked the fight. And a neighborhood watch captain stopping an unfamiliar teen-ager and asking him his business (if that is what happened) does not constitute provoking a fight. > > Regards, > Shodan A neighborhood watch is not supposed to confront anyone, question them, or follow them around. I’ve been on the receiving end of this kind of behavior, and it can really, really piss you off. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/171 "2012-03-27T17:06:12Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > In _logic_ “We don’t need you to do …” is quite different from “We need you not to do …” But _in English idiom_ … not so much. The point is that Zimmerman is under no legal obligation to obey the 911 dispatcher and stop following someone. The 911 operator cannot instruct Zimmerman, in the sense of telling him what to do and expecting him to obey. > [@](#): > > Intriguing that a private citizen who feels he has the right to demand a stranger provide details is unwilling to give his address to police. 😕 Martin was under no obligation to say anything whatsoever to Zimmerman. Nor do I expect that Zimmerman was obligated to give his home address to the 911 operator. Martin would have been perfectly free to respond to Zimmerman as Zimmerman did to the 911 operator - “I don’t feel like telling you”. It is not against the law to try to talk to strangers. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/172 "2012-03-27T17:09:18Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Not a rhetorical question: what is a conceivable scenario in which an unarmed kid deserves to be shot to death? When he answers his phone in a movie theater, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/173 "2012-03-27T17:09:36Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Also, excellent post steronz. You channeling Ignatius C. Reilly there? Cosigned. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/174 "2012-03-27T17:11:21Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > A neighborhood watch is not supposed to confront anyone, question them, or follow them around. “Supposed” according to who? The law? Not as far as I can tell. > [@](#): > > I’ve been on the receiving end of this kind of behavior, and it can really, really piss you off. I’m sure it can. But as far as I can tell, it does not constitute, or justify, assault and battery. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/175 "2012-03-27T17:13:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It is not against the law to try to talk to strangers. > > Regards, > Shodan Nor, apparently, at least in Florida, to shoot them if you don’t like their answers. Delightful that the usual idiots are, in effect, defending the murder of a black innocent. Would be fascinating to hear their reactions if the colors were reversed. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/176 "2012-03-27T17:17:38Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Delightful that the usual idiots are, in effect, defending the murder of a black innocent. Would be fascinating to hear their reactions if the colors were reversed. I think you’re wrong on this one. There are several posters who would usually be on one side of a controversy involving race and are on the opposite side in this one. **LonesomePolecat** , for example, who has made no secret of his views on race in other contexts. **jtgain** , too, though he’s more in the Clarence Thomas mold. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/177 "2012-03-27T17:18:21Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Nor, apparently, at least in Florida, to shoot them if you don’t like their answers. I’m honestly curious - are you just screwing around or do you really believe with a good degree of confidence that Zimmerman open fire on Martin after Martin gave unsatisfactory answers to Zimmerman’s questions? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/178 "2012-03-27T17:32:31Z")
Yeah, or the Mongooses, that’s a good team name. “The Fighting Mongooses.” ---
**Author:** ![pantheon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6bbea6/32.png) [@pantheon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantheon)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/179 "2012-03-27T17:35:33Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Not a rhetorical question: what is a conceivable scenario in which an unarmed kid deserves to be shot to death? Well, if the car is on fire… ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881/180 "2012-03-27T17:53:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > … How about simply waiting for the release of the police report, and not forming an opinion until then? How long? A week? Two weeks? Three weeks? Four weeks? Shortly after the Chief of Police says it was self-defense? Long enough so that folks can dig up every little bit of dirt they can to throw at the corpse? CMC fnord! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-team-trayvon-or-team-zimmerman/616881.md?page=10)