# Are you trying to discourage conservatives from staying at SDMB? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 9, 2007, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259 "2007-01-09T04:25:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/161 "2007-01-10T04:59:04Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] It is my experience in both observing your political posts and occasionally sparring with you in that subject area that you are not likely to agree that you have made a significant error of reasoning even if that is my opinion, nor are you likely to consider yourself as partisan as you certainly appear to be to me. [/quote] IOW, yes indeed, all you have to offer is more board-degrading sniping of exactly the sort you so piously decry. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/162 "2007-01-10T05:06:31Z")
Good night, **Jodi**. Sleep well. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/163 "2007-01-10T05:08:01Z")
[QUOTE=Princhester] Agreed. Scylla’s last post, and in particular the latter part of it, describes the process of the right wing leaving this board, but doesn’t actually give any reason why. It cannot be a co-incidence that the exodus co-incided with it becoming difficult to defend the nominally right wing current US administration. Many right wingers left when their nominal leadership became indefensible, meaning that many right wing posters could no longer “do okay”. [/quote] I find this logically lacking. If what you are saying is correct and the exodus due to indensibility than you would also expect the collapse and silence of the Freepers, the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal, the National Review, talk radio, and the general collapse of political debate from the right perspective. That does not appear to have happened. What has happened is that you’ve seen the drying up of posters willing to argue the perspective of the right on the SDMB and this phenomena seems partiular to the SDMB and does not reflect general conditions elsewhere. My opinion, and it’s just my opinion concerning the phenomenom is that The Clinton/Lewinsky thing followed by the bitter, close run and controversial 2000 vote led to a general polarization, and it became more difficult for people of either political persuasion to communicate meaningfully with their opposites. Places that were somewhat left-leaning yet still friendly to opposing viewpoints became more polarized and unfriendly as did their counterparts on the right, and we’ve had a proliferation of partisan bickering with a variety of web sites of both persuasions that basically just preach to the choir but engage in no real debate as they do not well tolerate opposing viewpoints but prefer self-congratulatory comeraderie, and the flogging of straw-men. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/164 "2007-01-10T05:16:15Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] I implied nothing. I stated it outright. I have hung out at both.. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I know. I distinctly remember the anti-Kerry slanders you posted with nothing more to substantiate them than Freeper. I also remember that when busted for it, you tried to plead prejudice on our part, that we wouldn’t accept Freeper as an authority on equal par as say _New York Times_. How’d that go for you? Anybody buy that one? So now you want us to believe that the SDMB is as far to the left as Freeper is to the right? Is this another of your sly excercises in post-modernist irony? Or are you _genuinely_ full of crap? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/165 "2007-01-10T05:43:09Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] I suppose that if you are a “foam-flecked semi-rapid leftie” it must seem to you that the Freepers are crazed right-wing nutjobs who have lost touch with reality, and the SDMB community is reasonable, balanced, normal, and represents roughly the same mix as America at large. [/quote] These two things are not, as you seem to assume, mutually exclusive. It is possible to believe that Freepers are crazed right-wing nutjobs, while at the same time acknowledging that this Board leans to the left of American society more generally, and is not necessarily representative of American society. In fact, just about every leftist and liberal in this thread has already conceded that the Board is more left/liberal than America as a whole. [QUOTE=Scylla] Such loss of perspective is the price of blind partisanship, so cast first the mote from thine own eye and realize that over in the freeper board is your doppleganger, complete with goatee, just like in that Star Trek episode. [/QUOTE] This is something that is _factually_ incorrect. This board is nowhere hear as left as the Free Republic is right. I’m constantly amazed at how some conservatives seem to have no idea of what true radical leftist thought is. They actually mistake people like Hillary Clinton for a leftist. If you really believe that this board is rabidly left, you should try visiting some actual leftists websites, one where socialism and anarchism dominate, rather than the Dope’s vaguely left/liberal/libertarian hegemony. [QUOTE=Scylla] I find this logically lacking. If what you are saying is correct and the exodus due to indefensibility than you would also expect the collapse and silence of the Freepers, the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal, the National Review, talk radio, and the general collapse of political debate from the right perspective. [/quote] Not at all. Your logic really is sorely lacking. People of the same political stripe, whether left or right, want and need places where they can talk to others who think like them. In fact, one could argue that in a period when right-wing politics is becoming increasingly difficult to defend, sites like the Freepers and the National Review might actually get stronger, as conservatives seek refuge from leftist and liberal criticism and instead turn to each other for mutual reassurance and conversation. Similarly, if a liberal government was in turmoil or controversy, the leftists and liberals who go to conservative sites might decide to leave in order to avoid direct criticism. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/166 "2007-01-10T05:43:59Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] So now you want us to believe that the SDMB is as far to the left as Freeper is to the right? [/QUOTE] Well, technically, we _could_ be, you know. Just depends on the location the observer decides to select for the centerpoint. Be an interesting discussion, wouldn’t it; where on the map do you have to place the center to have SDMB and Freep balance one another? And who’s already there? Rove? Norquist? Michael Moore? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/167 "2007-01-10T06:17:05Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] About that “vast majority”. Why is that, do you think? Do you believe that the SDMB is somehow “lefter” than the American population? Wouldn’t recent political events give you pause? I’ve asked this question more than once of persons who express the same view you have, that the SDMB is distinctly left, but I have yet to hear a plausible mechanism offered, as to how this came to be. Conspiracy, by chance? Lefties flit about in their trucks hurtling through the internet tubes, looking for centrist, wholesome sites to overwhelm by sheer number? Or was the site centrist and wholesome but moved by the brilliance of our arguments and the clarity of our positions? (I lean towards that one). [/QUOTE] I lean towards the obvious fact that this is an international board with lots of non-American posters. To an American it seems to lean left. To someone from France, Germany, or even Canada it probably doesn’t. I think there are even a few posters from that foreign country called Minnesota, which I think is somewhere up near Canada. Or Sweden. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/168 "2007-01-10T06:24:58Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I lean towards the obvious fact that this is an international board with lots of non-American posters. To an American it seems to lean left. To someone from France, Germany, or even Canada it probably doesn’t. [/quote] Don’t forget that American Conservatives are already off the deep end of the right side of global politics, so they’re particularly inclined to interpret any dissention with their views as “proof” of “liberal” bias. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/169 "2007-01-10T06:30:42Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] …that foreign country called Minnesota… [/QUOTE] Not yet. Working on it. Secessionist movement growing. With any luck, we can put up the Customs booths before anybody notices. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/170 "2007-01-10T06:48:51Z")
Just been following along here, but I think the point John Mace made is one of the keys to the discussion. There are a lot of non-American posters on this board, and the board is heavily influenced by a European perspective. I’ve noticed that even many of the folks who list various places in the US have leanings in that direction. So, we’d need to define our yard stick to tell if the board is at any given point on the political fence. IMO, and from an American’s perspective, the board is certainly left leaning wrt the average American (though its certainly not as left leaning as the Freeper web site leans to the right…at least not IMHO, having been on Freeper only a few times). To the OP…no, I don’t believe that the mods are discouraging conservatives in any meaningful way. There are certainly dipshits on the board who feel they must snipe at anyone who they deem ‘conservative’ at every opportunity (I’m looking at you, rjung 😛 ), but I don’t think that the mods in general take sides when they are acting AS mods, nor actively (or even passively) discourage a conservative viewpoint. I just don’t think this board is a big draw for conservatives in general. Its not REALLY a political board of course, though GD is used as a more political forum. We get a lot of misfits on this board…which is why you see, instead of lockstepping social conservative types, more libertarian type folks than are the norm on other boards. The ‘conservatives’ on THIS board, by and large, are usually not exactly in lock step with the conservative movement in the US…far from it. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that people who come to this board in many cases come here because they had and interest in Cecil’s articles…which for the most part aren’t politically oriented. I imagine that if the Myth Busters (or Randy, or Skeptical Inquirer, etc) have a similar message board, it has a similar make up of geeks, misfits and other wise barely functional nerd type folks to our own lovable posters. 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/171 "2007-01-10T07:11:36Z")
Randi’s board leans a bit left IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/172 "2007-01-10T07:18:57Z")
OK, but are they blitheringly insane left like the SDMB or just Volvo-driving Birkenstock Unitarian lefty? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/173 "2007-01-10T07:23:22Z")
You look at it a certain way, you could say that the SDMB is as much lefty as Freeper is trog right. Same way as **TomnDeb** is a jackbooted modthug. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/174 "2007-01-10T07:50:22Z")
This ‘Freeper’s site’, perhaps Scylla can share his experiences on its policies for membership and moderating posts? While that question is unfairly general, to be topical a reply could address what factors cause the moderators to take action there and the general understanding of a ‘troll’ at that site. While Scylla has suggested there is a symmetry of sorts between that board and this, I imagine that having ‘free’ in its name, it would have a more permissive policy on speech and political opinion than here. Would that be a fair assumption? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/175 "2007-01-10T09:55:31Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] OK, but are they blitheringly insane left like the SDMB or just Volvo-driving Birkenstock Unitarian lefty? [/QUOTE] Hmmm. Definitely not blitheringly insane left. Mostly they’re just interested in skepticism and seldom do they peer through their coke bottle glasses at the world beyond. I guess it’s mostly their anti faith stance that sets them against the right. I know both sides of US politics profess to hold the bible near, but I think the 'Pubbies have developed a closer association with faith based organisations. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/176 "2007-01-10T12:11:33Z")
Okay. European leftie checking in. Or am I? I’m pro gay-marrige, pro gender equality, pro race equality, pro abortion, pro euthanasia - anti war, anti discrimination on religion, or non religion and anti - violence. So how come I \* do \* have a problem with \*\* Tomndeb\*\* amongst others , here, at de SDMB? IMHO \*\* Tomndeb\*\* is an old man who’s desperately trying to look young by puking on everything President Bush and his cronies are doing. He’s critical of his own religion, so much so, that he’s willing to be tolerant towards intolerant, xenofobic, female-hostile anti-Semitic and anti-gay religions. And so do a LOT of you, Dopers. And you know what? I think you’re overdoing it. You’re WAY over the top. You exaggerate. And that’s pathetic. “Bush lied - Bush lied - Bush lied”? How boring. Which President doesn’t lie? [and for that matter: Which country hasn’t it’s own Guantánamo Bay - but so not openly admitted] I didn’t like President Bush when he started his first term. I think Clinton was stupid to deny his sex with Lewinsky. I think it was stupid to make such a scandal of it. Does that make me feel anti-American? No. It makes me feel a bit sad, to know there are so many people [at least on this board] who are so pre-occupied on what another person might think about his - or her- opinion on your President, that he - or she- is willing to type the most idiotic and cruel things about America and Americans. I’m not talking about well-known European Dopers, like the doddering, bizarre baldheaded boozer **RedFury** \*_waving_ \* but about the real people who love their country, with all the good - and bad - things. Hey, From a non-conservative ISLAMOPHOBE [yes, I am]: Get going. Make America as I imagine it [still] is: Good. [with excuses for my dreadful English] ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/177 "2007-01-10T12:22:20Z")
[QUOTE=gum] “Bush lied - Bush lied - Bush lied”? How boring. Which President doesn’t lie? [and for that matter: Which country hasn’t it’s own Guantánamo Bay - but so not openly admitted] [/QUOTE] Cite for any other western democracy that kidnaps and tortures citizens of other countries in secret and not so secret locations chosen to be beyond the jurisdiction of the law? Cite for other western leader, apart from the lapdog Blair, who lied their country into an invasion of a non-threatening nation? And then so cocked it up? (LBJ maybe) Beyond all that - the fact it is the sole wold superpower doing it - and one so full of self-righteous shining city on the hill bullshit - that makes the constant kicking completely necessary. And Newsflash - the lying, murdering cunt is still lying and murdering. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/178 "2007-01-10T12:37:31Z")
[QUOTE=gum] and for that matter: Which country hasn’t it’s own Guantánamo Bay - but so not openly admitted] [/QUOTE] What a load of shit. This seems to be the new meme, I’ve seen it a bit the last few days. Guantanamo is bad but every country has its Guantanamo. Guantanamo is bad but every president had one, it just wasn’t talked about. What a steaming load. Before Guantanamo was brought into existence by Bushco, it didn’t exist. Most western countries don’t have one. Face it and stfu. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/179 "2007-01-10T12:42:04Z")
Hey, you know what, CUNT? You’re boring the shit out of me. I - do - not - have - a - cite. Nor am I willing to search for one. [If you’re so inclined, try some Chinese newspapers] Kicking is necessary. Kicking below the belt is just klootsakkerij. [ballsackery] Cheerio, pip pip. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259/180 "2007-01-10T12:46:15Z")
Oh, Aloha, \*\* Princhester\*\*. My favourite fellow atheïst. Cite? 😃 [reallly, truly, honest to - uhmmm - something, or nothing - how ARE you?] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-trying-to-discourage-conservatives-from-staying-at-sdmb/387259.md?page=10)