# Are you willing to fight dirty? If so, how dirty? If not, will you fight at all? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 28, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422 "2013-08-28T18:11:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/21 "2013-08-28T19:00:43Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > I’m much smaller than most adults so I have zero compunction about fighting ‘dirty’ especially in a self-defense situation. Eyeballs, neck, genitals, kicking the stomach, and stabbing (if I have an implement) are not off-limits. > > Of course I would never engage in a physical fight unless assaulted by a crazy person; the odds are so far against me winning that I will try to resolve a conflict in every other way first. That’s why I specified that that the Crazy Man attacked the hypothetical you. I’m a largish person, but I still don’t engage in fighting unless I have no alternative (i.e., I or someone I care about is being attacked and neither retreat from nor verbal defusion of the situation is an option). ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/22 "2013-08-28T19:03:35Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > 😕 > > Have I written anything that makes you think I believe in fighting fair? Because if I have, I suggest that you are reading it wrong. Just that in the situation you described even the notion of fighting fair is, no offence, pretty daft. It’s a bit like asking ‘You’re being shot at, is it cowardly to find cover?’ Well, if you don’t, you’re greatly increasing your chances of ending up in the ER or morgue. Likewise with not doing anything you can to survive being attacked by a crazy person. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/23 "2013-08-28T19:06:50Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Just that in the situation you described even the notion of fighting fair is, no offence, pretty daft. It’s a bit like asking ‘You’re being shot at, is it cowardly to find cover?’ Well, if you don’t, you’re greatly increasing your chances of ending up in the ER or morgue. Likewise with not doing anything you can to survive being attacked by a crazy person. We agree there. But there may be persons who disagree. This thread was suggested a post in a thread I can’t recall in which a poster recounted a story of being suddenly attacked at a party, defending him or herself, and then being accused afterward of fighting dirty because s/he had bitten the aggressor on the shoulder. Reading that post, my first thought was “Wait, why WOULDN’T you have bitten the aggressor in that scenario, if the opportunity had presented itself?” ---
**Author:** ![JerrySTL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e274bd/32.png) [@JerrySTL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerrySTL)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/24 "2013-08-28T19:13:50Z")
My father taught me that the only fair fight was the one you won. If I was attacked, I’d do my utmost to make sure that the attacker was completely disabled before stopping. If I were attacked by multiple individuals and couldn’t escape, I would do my best to kill or knock out as many as possible. If I was protecting a family member like my grandchild, all bets are off. Even if they were knocked out, I think that I would still kill them unless police or other helpers stop me. After all they may wake up and attack me again. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/25 "2013-08-28T19:15:17Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > We agree there. But there may be persons who disagree. This thread was suggested a post in a thread I can’t recall in which a poster recounted a story of being suddenly attacked at a party, defending him or herself, and then being accused afterward of fighting dirty because s/he had bitten the aggressor on the shoulder. Reading that post, my first thought was “Wait, why WOULDN’T you have bitten the aggressor in that scenario, if the opportunity had presented itself?” Oh, right. Yeah, that’s nuts - complaining about dirty fighting is for the sportsmen, not lunatics trying to kill you. Any time violence is initiated it must be understood that it may not end until one of the participants is dead (even [one punch](http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/eugene-moloney-death-one-punch-killings-becoming-increasingly-common-1.1450752) can kill). Speaking of dirty fighting it would be remiss of me not to link to [Bas Rutten.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-pd3ekzVr8) ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/26 "2013-08-28T19:16:11Z")
Pretty sure I’d fight filthy. Eyes, balls, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/27 "2013-08-28T19:17:37Z")
> [@JerrySTL](#): > > My father taught me that the only fair fight was the one you won. If I was attacked, I’d do my utmost to make sure that the attacker was completely disabled before stopping. If I were attacked by multiple individuals and couldn’t escape, I would do my best to kill or knock out as many as possible. If I was protecting a family member like my grandchild, all bets are off. Even if they were knocked out, I think that I would still kill them unless police or other helpers stop me. After all they may wake up and attack me again. Okay, that’s where even I have to say, “Dirty pool, sir!” Once the person has been knocked out, you have to stop attacking and withdraw. At that point you become the aggressor. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/28 "2013-08-28T19:22:07Z")
Run to nearest car. Break off radio antenna. Whip assailant with said antenna. Repeat as necessary. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/29 "2013-08-28T19:22:39Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Okay, that’s where even I have to say, “Dirty pool, sir!” > > Once the person has been knocked out, you have to stop attacking and withdraw. At that point you become the aggressor. “Yes Officer, he was still moving when I kicked in his temple.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/30 "2013-08-28T19:23:07Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Okay, that’s where even I have to say, “Dirty pool, sir!” > > Once the person has been knocked out, you have to stop attacking and withdraw. At that point you become the aggressor. Agreed there; the law states that you’re justified in using reasonable force in defending yourself from attack. If they are knocked out they are no longer a threat so any force is by definition unreasonable; prison time for murder or manslaughter is gonna do your family no favours. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/31 "2013-08-28T19:30:58Z")
Don’t remember which U.S. general it was, but one of them once said, “If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn’t plan properly.” In this case, I didn’t have a chance to plan, so whatever it takes for me to get away is “fair.” ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/32 "2013-08-28T19:31:28Z")
Fight to win. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/33 "2013-08-28T19:34:17Z")
If I somehow get in a fight I will fight to win. Kneecaps, crotch, uppercuts, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/34 "2013-08-28T19:55:25Z")
I was in a fight before where I felt it necessary to go for the eyes…and when my fingers got into the socket, I just couldn’t bring myself to do it. That’s a pretty serious mutilation. I did however, poke his eyeballs sternly. (Someone else saved my bacon). ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/35 "2013-08-28T19:56:30Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > … I’m not saying you should immediately stab him in the carotid, but you’re perfectly justified in straying from Marquess of Queensberry rules. > [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > I don’t know what I personally would do, but I wouldn’t fault someone else for deliberately employing lethal force early on in the struggle. … This is a more interesting questions to me – at what point are you justified in using force you know is likely to be lethal? If someone takes a punch at me, I don’t think I’m justified in pulling a knife and stabbing him in the throat as a first or second response. I can’t really say how serious an assault would have to be before I would feel that level of response is justified. But maybe that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/36 "2013-08-28T20:07:30Z")
Firstest with the mostest. I am always armed. If I am down, then I did not do it right. I will remember Loach’s idea. I am big & ugly so it does not happen to me very often. The wife & I both like & enjoy being situationally aware. As to what I am willing to do, everything or anything while remembering my fist point above. I am not squeamish. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/37 "2013-08-28T20:10:50Z")
Round 1: Attempt to disengage Round 2: Nutshot Round 3: Gouge Eyeballs Round 4: Bite carotid. Cease immediately if he ceases. Of course, easy to say sitting in my office chair. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/38 "2013-08-28T20:11:46Z")
The first, I say again the First thing I do is gouge the eyes, that should be enough to stop anyone. If necessary a kick to the knee, then I can stroll over to my phone. ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/39 "2013-08-28T20:17:30Z")
There is no such thing as a “fair” fight. The situation you describe is not a sporting event, but survival. There is no tactic I would not use to keep from harm. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/40 "2013-08-28T20:19:07Z")
I would do anything and everything to end the fight. If that means biting his jugular, so be it. That said, I wouldn’t continue to beat his brains in if I had successfully incapacitated him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422.md?page=3)