# Are you willing to fight dirty? If so, how dirty? If not, will you fight at all? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 28, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422 "2013-08-28T18:11:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/81 "2013-08-29T17:39:03Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > I recently watched the movie “Jack Reacher” in which Tom Cruise plays an ex-military cop. The fight scenes struck me as very realistic - short, brutal, designed to end your opponent as fast as possible, not the choreographed dance-fighting we get in most movies. If anyone has seen it, was that a pretty realistic representation? I especially like how everyone involved becomes winded quickly, I’ve always heard a real fight doesn’t go on for minutes, but barely seconds and even the winner is exhausted by the end. I can confirm that in the physical confrontations I’ve had in my life, this is true. Even world-class athletes who train to fight professionally need to have the fights broken down into manageable small little segments (which, themselves, are a lot longer than most people are able to keep fighting). ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/82 "2013-08-29T17:50:10Z")
> [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](#): > > The whole scenario is highly unlikely (especially the part where I’m unarmed). I’d like to think that I’d be quick enough to grab a rock or a stick or a handful of dirt and apply it appropriately. I would certainly have no moral problem with going for the crazy guy’s eyes, balls, throat, or anywhere else that could hurt him or break him. > > ETA: **Disposable Hero** , I’d rather deal with a lawsuit than end up dead or maimed. Sure, but it still doesn’t give generic you free reign to do whatever you want, we’re all accountable and answerable for our actions. As I said minimum force necessary doesn’t meant going easy on the person, it just means you use whatever force necessary to defend yourself, that _might_ be extreme violence or even lethal force but you need to be damn sure that the situation warrants it. I find this thread kind of eye-brow raising to be honest. btw on a sidenote there is an unpleasant aspect of fights around here that has only appeared in the last decade or so, that of stamping or kicking on a persons head when they’re down, personally I believe it should be law that if you do that it should be an automatic attempted murder charge, there is absolutely no call for it. > [@Werekoala](#): > > I recently watched the movie “Jack Reacher” in which Tom Cruise plays an ex-military cop. The fight scenes struck me as very realistic - short, brutal, designed to end your opponent as fast as possible, not the choreographed dance-fighting we get in most movies. If anyone has seen it, was that a pretty realistic representation? I especially like how everyone involved becomes winded quickly, I’ve always heard a real fight doesn’t go on for minutes, but barely seconds and even the winner is exhausted by the end. I’m currently reading Njal’s Saga, an ancient Icelandic story, and one thing that struck me is that the fights depicted therin are short, sharp and brutal, there’s no Hollywood style clashing of swords but single swift strikes and immediately incapacitating wounds. I think Hollywood gives a very inaccurate picture of what violence is actually like in the real world. Though there seems to be a movement towards more realistic depictions of violence over the past few years. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/83 "2013-08-29T17:57:54Z")
> [@RobDog](#): > > I would prefer the tried and trusted British technique of subjugating my assailant with withering sarcasm. > > And bleeding all over him. Heh. I was going to say I would fall to the ground and curl up like a pillbug, whimpering, but your answer is a contender as well. Either way, I don’t have the skills or wherewithal to fight someone. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/84 "2013-08-29T18:02:42Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Heh. I was going to say I would fall to the ground and curl up like a pillbug, whimpering, but your answer is a contender as well. Either way, I don’t have the skills or wherewithal to fight someone. Lack of skill is a good reason not to **start** a fight (to be honest, there are far more good reasons not to start a fight than the reverse), but I don’t see a reason not to DEFEND yourself once attacked, if possible–especially if it’s clear that the attacker will not be dissuaded by words. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/85 "2013-08-29T18:08:50Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > How dirty are you willing to fight? Will you gouge his eyes if necessary? Knee him in the balls? Bite anywhere? Bite a throat? Grab a convenient stick and hit him in the head? If there’s a line you won’t cross, what is it, and why? I am not a fighter, and believe that violence is a last option. Also, I have not read the thread. Having said that, I would have no compunction against fighting dirty. Eyes, bollocks, whatever. I would have no problem, if I could get the assailant on his back, bringing my knee, backed by my considerable mass, down upon his sternum and xiphoid process. Having suffered knee injuries, I know that bending joints the wrong way is an effective way to cause pain to such an extent that an assailant would cease his attack – and be less likely to be able to carry out future attacks. I am not a violent person – at all. But I would maim, to the extent necessary, to preserve my own skin and bones. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/86 "2013-08-29T18:15:50Z")
> [@](#): > > there is absolutely no call for it. > [@](#): > > you need to be damn sure that the situation warrants it. Always & never & words of that sort mean to me that you actually have probably not been in true fright. Nor true fear. Without major & continued practice, being able to make those judgements quickly enough to follow your stated practice or suggestions, the majority of people can not do that fast enough. That is why some professions that get into life & death situations more than most, the scenarios are practiced until there is first reactions, thinking comes later if you have time. I work really hard at preventing the OP scenario from ever happening to me. If it did, I was not doing what I should. But either way, later does not even exist until I have provided myself a ‘later.’ And if given the chance, a boot to the head from any position will be delivered. YMMV, I’m just sayin… ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/87 "2013-08-29T18:18:05Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Always & never & words of that sort mean to me that you actually have probably not been in true fright. Nor true fear. You’d be mistaken on both counts. edited: I thought your first line was ‘probably not been in a true fight’. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/88 "2013-08-29T18:26:29Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Lack of skill is a good reason not to **start** a fight (to be honest, there are far more good reasons not to start a fight than the reverse), but I don’t see a reason not to DEFEND yourself once attacked, if possible–especially if it’s clear that the attacker will not be dissuaded by words. My attempt to talk my way out of it – “Why are you hitting ME? I have a wife and children. Why not hit THEM?” ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/89 "2013-08-29T19:05:32Z")
There is no line to cross… If I am accosted and if there is any fear that this is serious (which from your description it most certainly is) I would do any and everything until I am no longer feeling threatened. If that means I just knock his ass out, great… but if that means a rock goes upside his head or a stick through his eye, my thumbs crushing his larynx or a reverse choke until his windpipe cracks… so be it. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/90 "2013-08-29T19:57:30Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Let’s say you’re walking through the park, minding your own business, not bothering anybody, when a unhinged stranger begins to vocally and loudly object to your very existence. You try to withdraw peaceably, but that proves impossible; declaring his attention to fuck you up, the stranger leaps on you, knocks you to the ground, and begins pummelling you. You are not armed, and the Crazy Man’s initial blows knocks your cell phone out of your hand \*No one leaps to your defense or aid. \* > > How dirty are you willing to fight? Will you gouge his eyes if necessary? Knee him in the balls? Bite anywhere? Bite a throat? Grab a convenient stick and hit him in the head? If there’s a line you won’t cross, what is it, and why? In this case, the sky really is the limit. If I couldn’t get a good jiujitsu hold on him to subdue him, I’d bite, choke, and use any weapon I could lay a hand on. I’d go Bernard Goetz/George Zimmerman on the guy if I had a gun. Consequences come later; I’d be worried about getting out of there alive. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/91 "2013-08-29T19:59:44Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > My attempt to talk my way out of it – > > “Why are you hitting ME? I have a wife and children. Why not hit THEM?” Wasn’t it George Carlin who had the “things you never hear someone say”: “Do what you want to the girl, just please don’t hurt me.” ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/92 "2013-08-29T20:42:11Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > I recently watched the movie “Jack Reacher” in which Tom Cruise plays an ex-military cop. The fight scenes struck me as very realistic - short, brutal, designed to end your opponent as fast as possible, not the choreographed dance-fighting we get in most movies. If anyone has seen it, was that a pretty realistic representation? I especially like how everyone involved becomes winded quickly, I’ve always heard a real fight doesn’t go on for minutes, but barely seconds and even the winner is exhausted by the end. [Yeah…not always.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtMaixm9u0o)😃 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/93 "2013-08-29T20:49:18Z")
[I would also be willing to pull out the katana I normally carry on the R train.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrPRNsN7zpQ) ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/94 "2013-08-29T20:52:34Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > I recently watched the movie “Jack Reacher” in which Tom Cruise plays an ex-military cop. The fight scenes struck me as very realistic - short, brutal, designed to end your opponent as fast as possible, not the choreographed dance-fighting we get in most movies. If anyone has seen it, was that a pretty realistic representation? I especially like how everyone involved becomes winded quickly, I’ve always heard a real fight doesn’t go on for minutes, but barely seconds and even the winner is exhausted by the end. FWIW, [this is how to do that for real.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJX9QnrZtfc) Sometimes you can manage that, sometimes not. It does go without saying that the above video is an excellent advertisement for jiujitsu training. ---
**Author:** ![BrassyPhrase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea666f/32.png) [@BrassyPhrase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrassyPhrase)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/95 "2013-08-29T22:37:01Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > I’m not a fighter and have very little experience fighting. Providing I wasn’t stunned by the attack, I’d go for the eyes and the crotch. Hard. This. I’d do anything I could to de-escalate. After that? Going for a takedown. Screaming calll 911! ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/96 "2013-08-30T00:22:47Z")
Fight to escape, as best I can. It’s hard to imagine gouging eyes, but kicking/kneeing/grinding a crotch, breaking fingers, biting ears, etc, I can easily imagine doing. I think that, in the heat of fighting for my life, I would do all sorts of things that I could not bear to think about in a calm computer room. ---
**Author:** ![that\_darn\_cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/59ef9b/32.png) [@that\_darn\_cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/that_darn_cat)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/97 "2013-08-30T02:12:21Z")
“Screw the bloody Marquis of Fantailler”! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/98 "2013-08-30T02:27:52Z")
“Me? Fight dirty? Nah”. _flings your testicles into your face, spits in your mom’s face_ ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/99 "2013-08-30T09:26:26Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Well, I suppose I could point out that such an attittude is why absolute pacifism is self-limiting. That doesn’t change the principle in the slightest - “Be the change…” and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2013, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422/100 "2013-08-30T11:07:21Z")
The nose is really sensitive; I’d go for that first. A palm slam might be more expedient than trying to swing a fist. From martial arts I learned to lean into them. They don’t expect that, it weakens their grip and you might be able to break away. If standing, stomp on the top of their foot. It causes a whole lot of pain. And yell “Fire!” Gets the most people punching in 911. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-fight-dirty-if-so-how-dirty-if-not-will-you-fight-at-all/667422.md?page=6)