# Are you willing to go broke to maintain the present lockdown? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 23, 2020, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471 "2020-04-23T22:27:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/221 "2020-04-27T23:31:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Will everyone you come in contact with know how willing you are to take risks…and how willing you are to risk _their_ health? Unless someone is going to hide away in their own space for the next 18 months until a vaccine comes along, they are risking getting it. Worse, as I’ve demonstrated many times in this thread, flattening the curve is not (absent the one contention by Ravenman), about having people avoid getting sick. For the vast majority, anyone who thinks they can avoid it is deluding themselves. There are two notions for me that drive the basis for my arguments. The first is that flattening the curve is about reducing rates, not reducing counts. There are several cites on that, so it isn’t a baseless thought. The other notion is that the asymptomatic rate is higher than first thought. Studies from Roosevelt and Princess showed those rates to be 60% and 18%, I believe. There are studies being done in Wuhan and in NY to look at those, and based on those outcomes we will likely learn more. A higher asymptomatic rate implies a lower mortality rate. Since we have data that suggests the mortality rate is lower than first thought, it is safer to open up than when we didn’t know much of anything. Again, none of these are thoughts that are about wanting to open up just because of the money. I’m driven far more by the impact this is having on the unemployed and the pain this is causing those that are collateral damage to what we are doing. We have data that says we can keep systems from being overwhelmed. We have data that shows the death rate isn’t as high as first feared. Let’s start to take care of the rest of society and stop the panic mode we are in. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/222 "2020-04-27T23:46:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Will everyone you come in contact with know how willing you are to take risks…and how willing you are to risk _their_ health? That’s an easy question you can answer yourself. Just ask all the people in the grocery store next time you go. Start with the “essential” workers. They’re the ones risking everybody’s life for money. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/223 "2020-04-27T23:48:29Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > In contrast to a steep rise of coronavirus infections, a more gradual uptick of cases will see the same number of people get infected, but without overburdening the health-care system at any one time. It is odd that you ask my opinion on what flattening the curve means to me, I give you what o think is a thoughtful answer, and you then say I’m wrong. I’m not sure what the point is for asking my opinion if you already know the answer. > [@](#): > > Company being open is the way things run by default. Saying companies should be held responsible for being getting sick is not something that has ever been done. By default, Americans are not under an obligation to give up their paychecks because other people are out of work or suffering in other ways. It is you who is suggesting a massive change from the default. I am contending that if you want to change the rules of the game — such that individuals must bear the financial cost of their policy positions — then the saw should cut both ways. If you want Dr. Fauci to give up his paycheck because others are out of work, that’s a massive change from “the default.” It is only fair that businesses under this new construct also take on additional responsibilities if the ground rules change. Or, we can just avoid the whole idea of punishing people for their policy suggestions and deal with the crisis in ways that are more effective than vindictive. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/224 "2020-04-27T23:50:42Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That’s an easy question you can answer yourself. Just ask all the people in the grocery store next time you go. Start with the “essential” workers. They’re the ones risking everybody’s life for money. I think that the less personal contact we have with strangers the better, don’t you? What a ridiculous request. :rolleyes: BTW, all the workers I’ve seen have worn long sleeves and a mask, and kept _at least_ six feet away from the customers. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/225 "2020-04-27T23:52:19Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > Two things. > First, out of the nearly 1,000,000 case in the US, there are possibly two reported cases of patients that MAY have died due to a lack of care. Two. Not the thousands that overran Italy and Spain. Two. Are two patients worth millions of jobs and the many millions more that are affected by the lockdown? > Second, there simply is no guarantee that those patients would have survived even if there had been a response to them earlier. Check out the stats on the percentage of patients that die that go on ventilators. It is staggeringly high. Well, that is 2 wrong things from you. I was not talking about your straw man, I was talking mostly about people in the hospitals, that for a few weeks were overwhelmed and had people not being taken care properly and dying waiting for that care in hospital halls. One should also add here the hospital care workers that ran out of proper equipment because of the increase of sick people showing up, and as a result got sick and also died. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/226 "2020-04-28T00:21:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What difference does it make? It is the difference between an ignorant retort and one that has validity, your failure is that timelines are being ignored and IIRC I noticed in another thread that the number of beds you talk about was late to come. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/227 "2020-04-28T01:34:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think that the less personal contact we have with strangers the better, don’t you? > What a ridiculous request. :rolleyes: > BTW, all the workers I’ve seen have worn long sleeves and a mask, and kept _at least_ six feet away from the customers. In my area almost none of them have worn a mask and there is zero chance they have consistently stayed 6 feet away from customers. It’s impossible. But my response was more of a rhetorical one to point out we are not self isolating in any sense of the word. Sure, we’re not shoulder to shoulder spitting coronal epitaphs at sports officials but we’re not living in filtered isolation either. I’ve tried pointing out the fallacy of sheltering in place and how the concept has likely killed more elderly by confining them to well intentioned petri dishes. But for the most part we accomplished what we started out to do. Slow the rate of infection to a manageable level. We wanted to use the function of time to our advantage. We are getting to the point where the trade off between death and financial ruin is in transition. My governor just announced how we’re going to make the transition. We’re going to use what we’ve learned to maintain a higher level of protection and bring people back into the workforce in a controlled manner. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/228 "2020-04-28T01:39:40Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > It is odd that you ask my opinion on what flattening the curve means to me, I give you what o think is a thoughtful answer, and you then say I’m wrong. I’m not sure what the point is for asking my opinion if you already know the answer. The reason I asked is because if we can’t agree on what we are trying to accomplish (flattening the curve), we won’t be able to understand the rest of what each of us is saying. > [@Ravenman](#): > > By default, Americans are not under an obligation to give up their paychecks because other people are out of work or suffering in other ways. It is you who is suggesting a massive change from the default. I am contending that if you want to change the rules of the game — such that individuals must bear the financial cost of their policy positions — then the saw should cut both ways. I’m advocating for getting BACK to the default. It isn’t me calling for everyone to stay at home and not patronize anything but “essential” services. The default is for people to be allowed to go about their lives. If you want to advocate for people not being allowed to do that, at the cost of millions of jobs, you need to be prepared to make sacrifices instead of just asking others to sacrifice. > [@Ravenman](#): > > If you want Dr. Fauci to give up his paycheck because others are out of work, that’s a massive change from “the default.” It is only fair that businesses under this new construct also take on additional responsibilities if the ground rules change. Agreed! If we are going to move away from the default, we need to make everyone pitch in. On the other hand, if we are going to allow a return to more normal, that need is obviated. > [@Ravenman](#): > > Or, we can just avoid the whole idea of punishing people for their policy suggestions and deal with the crisis in ways that are more effective than vindictive. How is asking everyone to pitch in and sacrifice instead of asking just a few to sacrifice vindictive? As a society we are simply everyone in the society to make sacrifices. That isn’t vindictive at all. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/229 "2020-04-28T01:45:51Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Well, that is 2 wrong things from you. > > I was not talking about your straw man, I was talking mostly about people in the hospitals, that for a few weeks were overwhelmed and had people not being taken care properly and dying waiting for that care in hospital halls. One should also add here the hospital care workers that ran out of proper equipment because of the increase of sick people showing up, and as a result got sick and also died. Again, your evidence that hospitals were overrun is a story about two patients that were delayed being checked on and weren’t responded to promptly. Why you are calling that a strawman is unclear to me. The only way those two patients are relevant as to whether they indicate a failure of the hospital system is if they died because of lack of care. Even if they are relevant, you are still talking about 2 and 2 patients only. That is hardly the disaster we saw in other places. It demonstrates that the healthcare system was brought to the edge, not that it collapsed. It more supports my case than yours. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/230 "2020-04-28T02:15:46Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > How is asking everyone to pitch in and sacrifice instead of asking just a few to sacrifice vindictive? As a society we are simply everyone in the society to make sacrifices. That isn’t vindictive at all. It’s not. But believe it or not, you are not the first person in the history of the world to come up with the idea that people should give up part of their paycheck for the common good. It’s called _income tax_. If you want to have a sensible discussion of this, frame it in terms of what you think should be happening with tax policy - who should be taxed more and where should the money go? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/231 "2020-04-28T03:04:57Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > Again, your evidence that hospitals were overrun is a story about two patients that were delayed being checked on and weren’t responded to promptly. Why you are calling that a strawman is unclear to me. Read it again, you talked about not having care, the cites are not only dealing with that. > [@cmosdes](#): > > The only way those two patients are relevant as to whether they indicate a failure of the hospital system is if they died because of lack of care. Even if they are relevant, you are still talking about 2 and 2 patients only. That is hardly the disaster we saw in other places. It demonstrates that the healthcare system was brought to the edge, not that it collapsed. It more supports my case than yours. Wrong still, I also was referring to the ones dying in the hospital because they did not get all the care they could have because the hospitals were flooded, your statement really looks ridiculous as it clearly it was not just 2 people. And everyone can notice that you are ignoring the doctors and nurses that had to go with inadequate protection, again most likely brought by the spike in cases happening at the same time, and not coming later in less concentrated numbers as when a flattened curve takes place. > **[Thousands Of US Health Care Workers Have Been Infected By The Coronavirus....](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/zahrahirji/us-health-care-workers-coronavirus)** > > Due to limited data, the true scale of health care worker infections is still unknown. > [@](#): > > According to the nursing union National Nurses United, at least 29 registered nurses have died nationwide, including 3 of their members, and 222 of their members have so far tested positive for COVID-19. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/232 "2020-04-28T06:09:53Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > But, see… you are one that is saying you are willing to share in the sacrifice. That is what I was asking. I hear an awful lot of people talking about how we need to continue this but until they have some skin in the game I’m not sure it is fair for them to really be saying that. If they are willing to sacrifice, too, that is a different story. And if they are willing to sacrifice, now is the time to step up. Lots of people need help. Using this logic no one could have ever supported declaring war on Japan and Germany in WWII unless they were willing to put themselves on the front line. As for this crisis, aren’t you basically just saying we need far higher taxes to spread some of the economic pain around? If so, then yes. I agree. Of course we need FAR higher taxes (income and investment taxes at the very least). We have needed this for some time (probably since the 50’s or 60’s). ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/233 "2020-04-28T06:15:46Z")
I personally feel that NBA refs should start calling traveling more than once a season. But I’m not a NBA player so I’ve got no skin in the game. I personally feel that minorities should be treated more fairly. But I’m not a minority so I’ve got no skin in the game. I personally feel that public schools should be paid for out of general taxes, not only property taxes. But I’ve got no children so I’ve got no skin in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/234 "2020-04-28T11:23:03Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > Serious question here, but I imagine you’ll jump on me for asking. When was the last time a state worker had to take a cut in pay? It is not something I ever hear of. Last economic downturn. We got furloughed, we took pay cuts, we lost benefits, our salaries were frozen for years. There’s a salary schedule I was hired under back in 2007. That year, there was talk about what could be done to improve pay for teachers. Then the Great Recession struck. If the schedule I was hired under had never received improvements, had only been adjusted for inflation, I would’ve earned an extra $60,000 over the past 13 years, enough to almost pay off my house, or a very substantial college fund for my kids. Instead, my kids spent part of that time on Medicaid. And now we’re getting ready to enter a much more serious financial downturn. You bet your ass I’m worried. > [@cmosdes](#): > > I’m certainly willing to risk getting sick and all that entails. What other sacrifices are you looking for? Well, how about this? If we open early, there are going to be a lot more people who get very sick. Some of them will bankrupt themselves paying hospital bills. I assume that you’re willing to go broke to pay those bills for them, right? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/235 "2020-04-28T12:04:40Z")
Nobody has to go broke for us to maintain public health. That’s a choice we made. We should increase government debt and pay people to stay home until we have comprehensive test coverage and hospital capacity to protect & care for the essential workers right now, and a vaccine to protect everybody else as soon as we can. This is a perfect time for the government to take on debt. Interest rates are at historic lows. Inflation is at historic lows, Oil is at historic lows. Let’s print some money and send it directly to families! This is the most ideal time to do it! ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/236 "2020-04-28T12:24:48Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > I personally feel that NBA refs should start calling traveling more than once a season. But I’m not a NBA player so I’ve got no skin in the game. > > I personally feel that minorities should be treated more fairly. But I’m not a minority so I’ve got no skin in the game. > > I personally feel that public schools should be paid for out of general taxes, not only property taxes. But I’ve got no children so I’ve got no skin in the game. In all your examples, including the declaration of war, there is a demonstrable benefit enacting the policies. If extreme sacrifices are going to be asked of people there better be an extreme risk associated with not acting or the benefits from acting must be extreme. Asking to pay for public schools has demonstrable benefit in an educated society. Treating people more fairly has a demonstrable benefit of providing for a better society and equality for all people. Not declaring war on Germany and Japan had a huge risk to the US with political, social and economic implications. The benefit of stopping a mad ruler from nearly overtaking Europe are demonstrable. When the virus started to spread there was a demonstrable risk to not acting, See Italy an Spain. The cost and sacrifices we took as a society were justifiable. Since then, we have learned the risks are much less than first feared while the costs continue to mount. It certainly does not appear those worst fears can still be justified. To continue to call for the continued sacrifices and quite possibly even more, particularly when the ones calling for them aren’t the ones who will actually need to sacrifice, is wrong. The only defensible position for continuing this is the risk of overrunning medical systems. At this point, it certainly appears we have lots of margin for opening up without risking that. If others are saying it is still too risky, I’d be far more willing to give that opinion some weight if they were the ones that actually had something to risk. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/237 "2020-04-28T12:31:20Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Last economic downturn. We got furloughed, we took pay cuts, we lost benefits, our salaries were frozen for years. > > There’s a salary schedule I was hired under back in 2007. That year, there was talk about what could be done to improve pay for teachers. Then the Great Recession struck. If the schedule I was hired under had never received improvements, had only been adjusted for inflation, I would’ve earned an extra $60,000 over the past 13 years, enough to almost pay off my house, or a very substantial college fund for my kids. Instead, my kids spent part of that time on Medicaid. > > And now we’re getting ready to enter a much more serious financial downturn. You bet your ass I’m worried. I’ve been advocating for substantial increase to teacher’s salaries for a long time. My ex is a special ed teacher. I’ve heard of far too many teachers struggling. Maybe now that so many parents have had to try to educate their own kids they’ll realize what a valuable asset our teachers are. Good luck to you. Sincerely. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Well, how about this? If we open early, there are going to be a lot more people who get very sick. Some of them will bankrupt themselves paying hospital bills. I assume that you’re willing to go broke to pay those bills for them, right? You realize that just takes us back to the original definition of flattening the curve, yes? The same number of people are going to get sick with or without a lockdown. Even worse, and this is one of the reasons I want to try to save as many jobs as possible, if they get sick without insurance they are screwed. If we can keep more jobs more people keep insurance and can help pay for medical care they are going to need one way or another. I’m very willing to pay for universal healthcare, yes. As a matter of fact, it would likely SAVE me money. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/238 "2020-04-28T12:33:18Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > In all your examples, including the declaration of war, there is a demonstrable benefit enacting the policies. You appear to be making two different bad arguments. Your OP argues, very poorly, that a person may not advocate any policy that harms anyone, unless the advocate is willing to take on an extreme level of harm themselves. It makes no allowance for advocating a policy that harms a small group but protects a much larger group, nor does it make allowance for advocating both the policy that harms and a policy that mitigates that harm (e.g., increasing unemployment benefits). It’s a very poor argument. Your argument that I just quoted implies that there’s no demonstrable benefit to continuing the lockdowns. **EPIDEMIOLOGISTS DISAGREE.** The thing is, if you’re right that the lockdowns should stop, then the poor “you’re a hypocrite” argument is irrelevant. But you’re not right on this. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/239 "2020-04-28T12:34:02Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > Since then, we have learned the risks are much less than first feared Wait… have we in fact learned that? What was learned, and when did we learn it? From what I sit, all we’ve learned is that social distancing does keep the curve down, that there are more asymptomatic spreaders than we thought, and that the virus may have been causing fatal strokes in young adults who are only now getting postmortem tests. I don’t think you can accurately say we’ve overestimated the risk of the virus, unless you mean in the minds of the general public who are operating off TV news stories rather than reported scientific data. My grandma went from thinking “we’re all going to die” to “I didn’t die and I need to visit my beautician”. I love my grams but I’m not going to base public policy on what she saw on Tucker Carlson. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471/240 "2020-04-28T12:45:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Your argument that I just quoted implies that there’s no demonstrable benefit to continuing the lockdowns. **EPIDEMIOLOGISTS DISAGREE.** I’ve been watching Fox News lately, and according to their hosts, Dr. Fauci is consistently telling us to STEEPEN THE CURVE. I mean, the estimates of deaths just keep going down, but that’s because of… uh… quinine and antacids or something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-willing-to-go-broke-to-maintain-the-present-lockdown/852471.md?page=13)