# Area 51: An Uncencored History... book seems implausible **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/area-51-an-uncencored-history-book-seems-implausible/582404 "2011-05-19T03:04:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![awldune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@awldune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/awldune)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/area-51-an-uncencored-history-book-seems-implausible/582404/41 "2011-05-20T17:12:38Z")
On Fresh Air she seemed reluctant and even a little embarassed / apologetic to talk about the Roswell stuff. All of that came from a single eyewitness, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![awldune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@awldune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/awldune)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/area-51-an-uncencored-history-book-seems-implausible/582404/42 "2011-05-20T17:17:25Z")
BTW: If you are going to fake some alien corpses, which would be easier? a. Get evil scientists to engineer or surgically alter human subjects to be small and alien-looking b. Shave an orangutan or two ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/area-51-an-uncencored-history-book-seems-implausible/582404/43 "2011-05-20T23:26:32Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Doubtful. Tiny wings made for minimal maneuverability. That wouldn’t have been a problem today, with off-boresight and beyond visual range launch capability, but it would have been a huge problem in 1975. The idea was to use the Blackbird as an interceptor of incoming bombers not fighters. In his book, Rich recounts that a Blackbird flying at 75000 feet used a missile to shoot down a B-47 (remotely piloted) flying at 1200 feet from 80 miles away. He didn’t say what type of 60’s era missile was used, though, but he did say missiles were launched while traveling at Mach 3.2 (another test). I guess the thinking was, even if it took a while to scramble, it could still engage incoming targets sooner than anything else at the time (and maybe even now?). ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/area-51-an-uncencored-history-book-seems-implausible/582404/44 "2011-05-21T00:27:03Z")
I saw one of those Military Channel aircraft shows that claimed the Phoenix missile was originally designed for the SR-71, and when the interceptor version was canceled, it was adapted for the F-14. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/area-51-an-uncencored-history-book-seems-implausible/582404/45 "2011-05-21T00:42:41Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > The idea was to use the Blackbird as an interceptor of incoming bombers not fighters. In his book, Rich recounts that a Blackbird flying at 75000 feet used a missile to shoot down a B-47 (remotely piloted) flying at 1200 feet from 80 miles away. He didn’t say what type of 60’s era missile was used, though, but he did say missiles were launched while traveling at Mach 3.2 (another test). > > I guess the thinking was, even if it took a while to scramble, it could still engage incoming targets sooner than anything else at the time (and maybe even now?). I guess it’s feasible, assuming it could be scrambled fast enough. I didn’t realize the Phoenix had that kind of range (it entered service in 1966, the same year as the Blackbird). > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I saw one of those Military Channel aircraft shows that claimed the Phoenix missile was originally designed for the SR-71, and when the interceptor version was canceled, it was adapted for the F-14. Nah. It was built for the navalized version of the F-111, and then adapted for the F-14 when the F-111B was shelved. ---
**Author:** ![wbeaty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/439d5e/32.png) [@wbeaty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wbeaty)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/area-51-an-uncencored-history-book-seems-implausible/582404/46 "2011-05-21T01:24:19Z")
> [@awldune](#): > > BTW: If you are going to fake some alien corpses, which would be easier? > a. Get evil scientists to engineer or surgically alter human subjects to be small and alien-looking > b. Shave an orangutan or two You’d also need lots more than a disk-shaped fuselage. What, with 1947 kerosene turbojet engines, hot-filament pilot lights, cotton fabrics? Now maybe if they filled it will bizarre non-working tech, then used a conventional aircraft to fly it in and drop it… Hmmm, now that would be a fun design job. Building an almost-working alien spacecraft, the hardware analog of the fake pilots? What to include. Think up lots of obscure “parallel technology” that works fine but was never part of normal history. Don’t forget that much of it will end up “broken during the crash.” Martians who never invented the wheel, and replace rotary tools with ultrasonic vibrators. Microwave hoses and wireless globe lamps. Swap all your power transformer iron cores with fast-spinning spherical magnets levitated in vacuum capsules. Design some nav/ctrl electronics which runs at 50,000amps, 100 microvolts (or runs at 50 kilovolts, 100 microamps) Only trouble with that is the damn Americans might figure out some genuine applications for the fake devices, or even modify them so they actually function. That “Alien” vacuum tube made from weird minerals? It never did work right until we made our own version from a small block of Germanium. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/area-51-an-uncencored-history-book-seems-implausible/582404/47 "2011-05-21T01:55:02Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I guess it’s feasible, assuming it could be scrambled fast enough. I didn’t realize the Phoenix had that kind of range (it entered service in 1966, the same year as the Blackbird). > > Nah. It was built for the navalized version of the F-111, and then adapted for the F-14 when the F-111B was shelved. I went and looked at the Wiki page about the Phoenix, and it agrees. Can’t recall if it was “Wings” or “Great Planes”, or maybe some other one. But, upon further Googling, I found [this picture](http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightning72/3973176695/). And there are some other pages claiming it. [This page says](http://stephenesherman.com/discussions/century_series.html): > [@](#): > > Don’t forget the YF-12 Fighter interceptor version of the blackbird, equipped with the progenitor of the Phoenix missile system. [Here’s another link saying pretty much the same.](http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_blackbird.html) > [@](#): > > The YF-12 was a long range interceptor that never went into production, its Hughes radar and AIM-47 missiles were later to be developed into the AWG-9 Phoenix weapon system on the US Navy’s Grumman F-14 Tomcat. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/area-51-an-uncencored-history-book-seems-implausible/582404/48 "2011-05-21T01:58:19Z")
The AIM-47 pictured is the stillborn Falcon long range missile, which was developed for the F-108 Rapier. The AIM-54 Phoenix was developed \*from \*the Falcon, but was definitely developed for the F-111B. ETA: It’s true that the Falcon was the progenitor of the Phoenix, though. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Eel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/977dab/32.png) [@Old\_Eel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Old_Eel)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/area-51-an-uncencored-history-book-seems-implausible/582404/49 "2011-05-21T04:10:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Apparently, the woman is also the same cool headed individual that caused a minor national freakout when she wrote a magazine article a few years back claiming that she witnessed a group of arab gentleman on a plane she was on preparing a “dry run” for a planned terrorist attack (the men turned out to be a band of Syrian musicians). She wrote a book based on this, too. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/area-51-an-uncencored-history-book-seems-implausible/582404/50 "2011-05-21T16:09:38Z")
> [@Old\_Eel](#): > > She wrote a book based on this, too. Indeed. Let’s all laugh now at the hilarious product description from Amazon: > [@](#): > > Annie Jacobsen’s harrowing first-hand account of her flight with a group of suspected terrorists forces us to ask: Could 9/11 happen again? On June 29, 2004, Jacobsen, traveling with her family on Northwest Airlines flight 327, witnessed what she believed was a terrorist “dry run.” The blogosphere quickly made world news of Jacobsen’s article on her terrifying experience, launching her on a year-long investigation. In Terror in the Skies, Jacobsen tells, for the first time, the full story of the events on Northwest 327 and the investigation that followed. What happened on her flight, she discovered, was not an isolated incident, and if our air security does not improve, 9/11 is likely to happen again. A “harrowing account” of a flight with “suspected terrorists?” _She’s_ the one who made them suspects! “Not an isolated incident?” So idiots have assumed brown people are terrorists on other occasions as well? You don’t say! ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/area-51-an-uncencored-history-book-seems-implausible/582404/51 "2011-05-21T18:39:43Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Indeed. Let’s all laugh now at the hilarious product description from Amazon: > > A “harrowing account” of a flight with “suspected terrorists?” _She’s_ the one who made them suspects! “Not an isolated incident?” So idiots have assumed brown people are terrorists on other occasions as well? You don’t say! Thank god that traveling musicians are not an isolated incident! Or maybe it should be. Either way. ---
**Author:** ![Uncertain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Uncertain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncertain)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/area-51-an-uncencored-history-book-seems-implausible/582404/52 "2011-05-23T04:15:32Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But from what people are saying it sounds like a classic “good and unique” situation - the parts of the book that are good aren’t unique and the parts that are unique aren’t good. Isn’t that redundant? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/area-51-an-uncencored-history-book-seems-implausible/582404/53 "2011-05-23T04:18:58Z")
There’s nothing unique about bad. ---
**Author:** ![Stilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Stilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stilly)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/area-51-an-uncencored-history-book-seems-implausible/582404/54 "2011-06-03T07:05:20Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > The other brother stayed in Germany and became an officer in the post-war Luftwaffe. It doesn’t say whether it was East or West. Did both East and West air forces have the same name? correct names: [ul] [li]Bundesluftwaffe (West)[/li][li]Luftstreitkräfte der DDR (East)[/li][/ul] but “Luftwaffe” would be a common term to use for both. In any case: It is clear from the Wikipedia article in English (as in German) that he was in West Germany: [ul] [li]Place of death is far in the (south) west.[/li][li]He construcded a plane in 1951 that was produced in Bonn (at that time capital of West Germany)[/li][li]Contact between Reimar Horton and Jack Northrop[/li][/ul] Pretty safe to say they were not working for Stalin. What does not mean that others (maybe familiar with their WWII work) weren’t working for Stalin. ---
**Author:** ![Stilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Stilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stilly)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/area-51-an-uncencored-history-book-seems-implausible/582404/55 "2011-06-03T07:16:30Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Thank god that traveling musicians are not an isolated incident! Or maybe it should be. Either way. “Let’s do it this Friday. It’s gonna be big. People will remember it for years” Could be two dudes planning a party… Now, say the same sentence with an Arabic accent. See what happens? 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/area-51-an-uncencored-history-book-seems-implausible/582404.md?page=2)