# Aren't senior discounts an ageist business practice? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 3, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549 "2008-12-03T19:09:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![seodoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@seodoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seodoa)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/21 "2008-12-04T00:54:18Z")
My father, a man in his 60s, hates senior discounts and, in fact, all of the trappings and privileges associated with the elderly. He constantly grumbles about the mail he receives from AARP and the Golden Buckeye Program. Personally, I’d love all the benefits and discounts, but for him, at least, it just makes him feel old. ETA: Whether they are ageist or not, they are definitely legal. The Golden Buckeye Program is a state-sponsored discount club for senior citizens operated by the Ohio Department of Aging. Basically, once you hit 60, you get a magic card that gives you automatic discounts at any of the businesses in Ohio that have signed onto the program. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/22 "2008-12-04T01:25:28Z")
> [@Laudenum](#): > > :eek: > Do many American businesses provide that sort of deal? When African-Americans in the south had to sit in the back of the bus, did they get a discount? The only evidence I have for this (weak) is a few lines from Dylan’s “I Shall Be Free” A can of black paint it fell on my head. I went down to scrub and rub but I had to sit in the back of the tub Cost a quarter Half price. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/23 "2008-12-04T01:27:02Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > Does anyone have any reputable statistics that support the ‘old people have less money’ argument? It’s never made much sense to me - someone who’s 35 has had ten, fifteen years or so of a career. Someone who’s 60 has had forty or so years in a career during which to save - it doesn’t seem logical to me. Older people have higher medical bills and, in general, lower or fixed incomes. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/24 "2008-12-04T01:28:40Z")
In my experience, most restaurants will offer senior meals to anyone who asks for it. My mother prefers the smaller portions of a senior meal, so she’ll often ask for senior portions even if she is charged full price. Usually they just give her the senior meal. **Jackdavinci** , if you are talking about official attractions, varied rates for citizens, residents and visitors are pretty common in developing countries worldwide. The basic idea is that rich foreign tourists will pay whatever it takes to get in to an areas major attractions, so the market rate is going to be inflated beyond what a local could ever pay. But it’s kind of a bummer that a citizen would be outpriced out of ever seeing their own national treasures. So they have a tiered scheme. Think of this not as 'fleece the tourist" but rather “give the locals a chance”. If you are talking about prices for hotels and food, that is another issue. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/25 "2008-12-04T01:35:06Z")
Also note that many hotels have a “no locals” policy. The idea being that if you a re a local you are probably getting a hotel room to do something you don’t want to do in your house. Well, the hotel doesn’t want you doing that at their place, either. Walk in motel prices are pretty much arbitrary, and are made up by the clerk as you walk in the door. As a clerk I was given a range (say, between $59-$89) to shoot for. What I offered first depended on what you looked like. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/26 "2008-12-04T02:22:17Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > Does anyone have any reputable statistics that support the ‘old people have less money’ argument? It’s never made much sense to me - someone who’s 35 has had ten, fifteen years or so of a career. Someone who’s 60 has had forty or so years in a career during which to save - it doesn’t seem logical to me. I can’t speak for all older people, but I spent most of it on my kids. ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/27 "2008-12-04T02:51:11Z")
I know what the term is saying, but honestly, a lot of us are living on a “fixed income”, and it makes me bristle because it implies everyone else can pull money out of the ether if they so chose. Younger people may not be paying as much health-care related costs as senior citizens, but we are more likely to be paying for mortgages or rent, cars, insurance, college, daycare, food, clothing, and entertainment for entire families. It’s true our jobs _could_ give us raises, or we _could_ take on second jobs, but these days raises are hardly guaranteed, job security is questionable, and for many of us our lives would suffer greatly if we took second jobs. Back home, I always used to get upset every time the local bus company talked about raising regular and child fares while senior citizens’ reduced-fare policy remained the same. If they charged a flat rate for everyone, chances are no one would face fare hikes, but I guess they just didn’t want to do that, even though senior citizens make up a significant part of the ridership. ---
**Author:** ![seodoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@seodoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seodoa)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/28 "2008-12-04T03:13:32Z")
> [@AudreyK](#): > > Back home, I always used to get upset every time the local bus company talked about raising regular and child fares while senior citizens’ reduced-fare policy remained the same. If they charged a flat rate for everyone, chances are no one would face fare hikes, but I guess they just didn’t want to do that, even though senior citizens make up a significant part of the ridership. I’ve also thought about that while riding buses. In the places where I have ridden them, senior citizens made up not only a significant part of the ridership, but by and large the greatest part of the ridership. To give them a discount and charge full price to everyone else begins to seem more like a tax on the young and able-bodied for being lazy enough to take the bus rather than walk. On a related note: Does anybody else like to go to any of the many diners/luncheonettes that cater specifically to the elderly? I love them. The food is significantly cheaper than any other restaurant and usually pretty good (with smaller portions that work better for tiny-tummied me). But, whenever I walk into one, I seem to always get glared at and in general made to feel like some sort of interloper. Can I help it if I think open-faced roast beef sandwiches are delicious? ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/29 "2008-12-04T03:41:08Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > Does anyone have any reputable statistics that support the ‘old people have less money’ argument? It’s never made much sense to me - someone who’s 35 has had ten, fifteen years or so of a career. Someone who’s 60 has had forty or so years in a career during which to save - it doesn’t seem logical to me. A lot of older people – the people born in the 1920s and 1930s – are more likely to have Social Security and a fixed pension. The concept of saving for one’s own retirement didn’t really take hold until the advent of IRAs in the 50s and 401(k)s in the 1980s. And don’t forget that retirement accounts tend to be very market-sensitive. So accounts that were worth _x_ last year are worth _x-y_ as the market goes down. There are ways to reduce losses; many annuities offer some protections, and you can always put your money into conservative funds that don’t make as much money, but they don’t lose as much, either. Older people are also less likely to have a mortgage or children, but they do have to maintain their house, have higher medical costs and may be taking care of a spouse who is in poor health. Also, some retirement money goes away when the spouse dies and conventional wisdom is that people in that stage of life don’t necessarily need life insurance, so that lost income may not be replaced. So the short answer is that they may have more cash, but the cash they have has to last. As for the transit thing, that may be simply be a safety reason. By offering seniors reduced fares (or in the case of the county where I live, free transportation for seniors), they can keep some independence in terms of maintaining their own schedule, but who should not be on the road. For some, it’s also a matter of giving up the hassle and expense of owning a car that may sit in a garage most of the time nayway. Robin ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/30 "2008-12-04T03:56:11Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > As for the transit thing, that may be simply be a safety reason. By offering seniors reduced fares (or in the case of the county where I live, free transportation for seniors), they can keep some independence in terms of maintaining their own schedule, but who should not be on the road. For some, it’s also a matter of giving up the hassle and expense of owning a car that may sit in a garage most of the time nayway. > > Robin Oh, dear God that was awful. What I meant to say is that there are a couple of valid reasons to offer senior citizens reduced fares on public transit. The first is that some older people have health reasons why they shouldn’t drive anymore. Perhaps they’ve got vision problems like cataracts or arthritis that makes it hard to steer. Making sure they’ve got cheap transportation is a good incentive not to drive. They can keep their independence but they’re no longer dangerous to the others on the road. And that may be good for people who don’t want to drive anymore; they’ve still got a means to get around but don’t have the hassle or expense of maintaining a car that mostly stays garaged. The other is that there may be state or federal grant money that subsidizes such transportation, which would have the effect of subsidizing the discount. So they’re adding just as much as you do to the bus company’s coffers, it’s just that they don’t pay all of it themselves; Uncle Sam (or whoever) pays part of it. Where I live, the county gets funding from PennDOT to provide door-to-door transportation to seniors at no cost to them. There. Much better. 🙂 Robin ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/31 "2008-12-04T04:23:14Z")
If you hold a job, you stand a chance of getting a promotion or a decent raise. Social Security raises don’t keep up with the increase in the cost of living. > [@](#): > > **kunilou** : I can’t speak for all older people, but I spent most of it on my kids. I spend a reasonable portion on my mother and my grandchildren. My mother spends it on her children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and great-great grandchild and her boyfriend. ---
**Author:** ![seodoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@seodoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seodoa)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/32 "2008-12-04T04:39:12Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > The other is that there may be state or federal grant money that subsidizes such transportation, which would have the effect of subsidizing the discount. So they’re adding just as much as you do to the bus company’s coffers, it’s just that they don’t pay all of it themselves; Uncle Sam (or whoever) pays part of it. Where I live, the county gets funding from PennDOT to provide door-to-door transportation to seniors at no cost to them. > > There. Much better. 🙂 Yeah, I definitely understand why they do it. But I still like to grumble that I have to pay more. Can a person with a serious disability get reduced bus fare? I mean, the elderly don’t have a monopoly on physical conditions that reduce one’s ability to drive. In Ohio (at least, in the two counties in Ohio where I lived), there were county programs like the one you describe. TLC (Transportation Logan County… I know… it’s awful) gave lifts to elderly, disabled, and other needy individuals, which was extremely important in a rural area with no public transport. But I imagine these programs are less important in areas that have a strong bus/metro network. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/33 "2008-12-04T04:45:29Z")
> [@seodoa](#): > > Can a person with a serious disability get reduced bus fare? I mean, the elderly don’t have a monopoly on physical conditions that reduce one’s ability to drive. They do on Chicago’s RTA system, which includes the CTA trains and busses. [Scroll down almost to the bottom.](http://www.transitchicago.com/maps/fares.html) ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/34 "2008-12-04T04:56:54Z")
> [@seodoa](#): > > Yeah, I definitely understand why they do it. But I still like to grumble that I have to pay more. > > Can a person with a serious disability get reduced bus fare? I mean, the elderly don’t have a monopoly on physical conditions that reduce one’s ability to drive. > > In Ohio (at least, in the two counties in Ohio where I lived), there were county programs like the one you describe. TLC (Transportation Logan County… I know… it’s awful) gave lifts to elderly, disabled, and other needy individuals, which was extremely important in a rural area with no public transport. But I imagine these programs are less important in areas that have a strong bus/metro network. I would imagine that discounts vary by location. When I rode the bus, students, disabled and the elderly got a discounted fare. If you took the bus regularly, you could buy a monthly pass for a fixed fee. Sometimes, larger systems still have alternative transportation for the elderly and disabled; for example, a full bus during rush hour may not have the space for someone in a wheelchair, so the driver will call for a van to come pick the person up. Or the person may not be able to get himself from a regular stop to his final destination, so door-to-door transportation is a better option. I’m not an expert on bus-system management (for that, you’d need **Mr. Bus Guy** ), but I’ve ridden the bus in a lot of cities. Robin ---
**Author:** ![greatshakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@greatshakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greatshakes)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/35 "2008-12-04T06:20:51Z")
> [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](#): > > No, it would be illegal, just like a “white discount.” I’m assuming the callers were making a joke. > > While I’ve never heard of separate price lists by race, the real problem was segregation (think lunch counters). The law took the approach of saying you have to treat customers equally, which implies how and where they are served as well as what you charge them. Is it against the law to offer a white discount? I haven’t heard anything like thatl. Too often people assume that something that they don’t like, such as racism, is illegal, that I have to ask this question. Sorry for the hijack. greatshakes ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/36 "2008-12-04T07:44:43Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > **Jackdavinci** , if you are talking about official attractions, varied rates for citizens, residents and visitors are pretty common in developing countries worldwide. Yeah I get that. Even Disney does it here in the USA 😉 I just found it amusing that I was automatically assumed to be a non citizen even though my host family was buying the tickets, but my friend who is a US citizen (and richer than me :rolleyes: ) but looks Honduran was assumed to be a local all based solely on visuals. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/37 "2008-12-04T12:25:46Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > … varied rates for citizens, residents and visitors are pretty common in developing countries worldwide. The basic idea is that rich foreign tourists will pay whatever it takes to get in to an areas major attractions, so the market rate is going to be inflated beyond what a local could ever pay. But it’s kind of a bummer that a citizen would be outpriced out of ever seeing their own national treasures. So they have a tiered scheme. Think of this not as 'fleece the tourist" but rather “give the locals a chance”. No, sorry, this IS “fleece the tourist” and I have always not participated just on principle. It has practically disappeared in China but it used to be that many things were priced much higher for foreigners. Admission to places, trains, etc. I usually got around it by having my girlfriend buy the tickets alone. Later they never complained. As I say, the practice has pretty much disappeared, thank goodness. I will note that the notion of “fleece the tourist” is alive and well in developed countries too. It just takes a more subtle form. Like outrageous prices for WIFI access and other things at airports. Like higher taxes for hotel rooms than for other goods and services. My reaction is always to avoid such places like the plague. It is the principle of the thing. I do not like being taken advantage of. People who do this kind of thing should be ashamed. If they want the tourists’ money it is more honorable to sell their bodies for sex than to do this. people who do this are shameless bastards. And that includes AMS airport. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/38 "2008-12-04T12:53:16Z")
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. I saw this practice most obviously in India, and at first I was upset. But then I realized that if they had to choose one price, it wasn’t going to be the low one. It was going to be the highest one the market can bear. And that really would mean a lot of people would never gonna get to see their own monuments. Yeah, I hated paying twenty bucks to get into the Taj Mahal when my friend only had to pay twenty cents. But, at the same time my friend made around a hundred a fifty bucks a month. And I obviously had a thousand bucks to drop on a plane ticket. I just figure it’s their cultural heritage and they can do with it what they want. I thank god I’ve had the luck and opportunity to see so many of the world’s treasures. Most these people buying their twenty cent ticket would never even in a million years be able to get anywhere near getting a tourist visa- even if they had enough money- to be able to see our national treasures. ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/39 "2008-12-04T13:30:52Z")
Price differentiation is common. It has nothing to do with discrimination except for discriminating how to maximize profit. From Tim Harford’s [Undercover Economist](http://timharford.com/2005/10/go-figure-an-extract-from-the-undercover-economist-2/): > [@](#): > > For instance, when Disney World in Florida offer admission discounts of more than 50 per cent to local people, they’re not making a statement about the grinding poverty of the Sunshine State. They simply know that for a reduced price, locals are more likely to come regularly. But tourists will probably come once, and once only, whether it is cheap or expensive… > > Tourists visiting Florida are less price-sensitive than locals, which means that if Disney World raises its prices, locals are more likely to skip a day at the park. By the same token, if the admission price falls, locals may make repeat visits in a way that tourists probably won’t. Being rich is sometimes connected with being insensitive to prices, but not always. Business-class air travel is expensive, because companies are willing to pay and airlines have the scarcity power to take advantage of that fact. ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549/40 "2008-12-04T13:35:44Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > Does anyone have any reputable statistics that support the ‘old people have less money’ argument? It’s never made much sense to me - someone who’s 35 has had ten, fifteen years or so of a career. Someone who’s 60 has had forty or so years in a career during which to save - it doesn’t seem logical to me. They \*could \*have saved, but what makes you think that all of them did? And think less about 60 year olds, and more about 80 year olds. They’ve had decades to deplete their savings with no way to get more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-senior-discounts-an-ageist-business-practice/475549.md?page=3)