# Aren't the early, very powerful elves and humans in Tolkien's world kind of like Gods? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 17, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-the-early-very-powerful-elves-and-humans-in-tolkiens-world-kind-of-like-gods/543614 "2010-06-17T23:22:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-the-early-very-powerful-elves-and-humans-in-tolkiens-world-kind-of-like-gods/543614/21 "2010-06-18T17:37:06Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Pity JRRT was rather prudish. I’d love to have learned more about such specialized skills. Fool of a Took! You know very well I was referring to the fact that, while Luthien was skilled in magical songs & changing shape, she was not physically formidable. Not by a long shot. If, by some wrinkle in time, she had ever found herself face to face with Eowen, and for some inexplicable reason a fistfight broke out, said duel would consist primarily of Luthien saying “Ow! Owie owie ow! Okay, okay, you can have the last of the lembas! Geez, what a bitch. No, no, I didn’t mean you, Eowen–I mean, MISS Eowen! Ow!!” In other matters, I am morally certain that, by our standards, Elvish sex was never what we would today call “vigorous,” “enthusiastic,” or “good.” ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-the-early-very-powerful-elves-and-humans-in-tolkiens-world-kind-of-like-gods/543614/22 "2010-06-18T17:46:16Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-the-early-very-powerful-elves-and-humans-in-tolkiens-world-kind-of-like-gods/543614/23 "2010-06-18T17:57:33Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > …In other matters, I am morally certain that, by our standards, Elvish sex was never what we would today call “vigorous,” “enthusiastic,” or “good.” Plus you have the _certainty_ that a child will thus be conceived, which could, um, y’know, be a turnoff for some. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-the-early-very-powerful-elves-and-humans-in-tolkiens-world-kind-of-like-gods/543614/24 "2010-06-18T18:08:04Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Plus you have the _certainty_ that a child will thus be conceived, which could, um, y’know, be a turnoff for some. Is it certain? My impression was that Elvish women always know when they have conceived, not that every instance of sex leads to conception. Have you a cite for the latter? ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-the-early-very-powerful-elves-and-humans-in-tolkiens-world-kind-of-like-gods/543614/25 "2010-06-18T18:40:34Z")
Hmmnh, I always had the opposite impression: that Elvish sex was so much better than human sex that we mere mortals can’t imagine it. After all, it pretty much defined Elvish marriage; that is, having sex was equivalent to marrying in Elvish culture. And IIRC, on several occasions Elves did bad things driven by desire. The impression I’ve always had was that Elves have enough other really strong interests that sex isn’t usually the all-powerful drive that it can be for some Men, but that when Elvish sex happened, it was incredible. I mean, Elves are deeply rooted in natural things, and dedicated to things that delight all the senses - they make beautiful visual stuff, lovely music, wonderful food, and marvelously soft, sensual fabrics. And sex is really, really important to them, enough so that a single instance implies an immortal commitment to their partner. My guess is that sex for them would be outrageously sensual, maybe sort of like Tantric sexual practices, rather than hot, sweaty monkey sex. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-the-early-very-powerful-elves-and-humans-in-tolkiens-world-kind-of-like-gods/543614/26 "2010-06-18T18:55:47Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > Hmmnh, I always had the opposite impression: that Elvish sex was so much better than human sex that we mere mortals can’t imagine it. After all, it pretty much defined Elvish marriage; that is, having sex was equivalent to marrying in Elvish culture. And IIRC, on several occasions Elves did bad things driven by desire. > > The impression I’ve always had was that Elves have enough other really strong interests that sex isn’t usually the all-powerful drive that it can be for some Men, but that when Elvish sex happened, it was incredible. I mean, Elves are deeply rooted in natural things, and dedicated to things that delight all the senses - they make beautiful visual stuff, lovely music, wonderful food, and marvelously soft, sensual fabrics. And sex is really, really important to them, enough so that a single instance implies an immortal commitment to their partner. My guess is that sex for them would be outrageously sensual, maybe sort of like Tantric sexual practices, rather than hot, sweaty monkey sex. I said I was _morally certain_. That’s RhymerSpeak for “I have no proof of the propoition in question but believe it anyway.” ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-the-early-very-powerful-elves-and-humans-in-tolkiens-world-kind-of-like-gods/543614/27 "2010-06-18T19:09:57Z")
“I had the impression” is \*\*Oy!\*\*speak for the same thing. (except I would use ‘proposition’ rather than ‘propoition’) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-the-early-very-powerful-elves-and-humans-in-tolkiens-world-kind-of-like-gods/543614/28 "2010-06-18T19:32:47Z")
> [@](#): > > It was only the Calaquendi (elves of the light, who’d lived in the presence of the Valar and the trees) that were so mighty, and occasionally godlike. They also seemed to be able to learn to use a little of the ‘creative’ power of the Ainur, and alter reality a bit via song (A la Finrod vs. Sauron). OK, Luthien is obviously a special case, but Thingol and Elrond were neither of them Calaquendi, either. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-the-early-very-powerful-elves-and-humans-in-tolkiens-world-kind-of-like-gods/543614/29 "2010-06-18T19:41:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, Luthien is obviously a special case, but Thingol and Elrond were neither of them Calaquendi, either. Thingol saw the light of the Two Trees. He was one of the first Elves taken over sea; he and his brother (Olwe?) were then taken back to Middle-earth to lead the rest of their people back. He got distracted by Melian’s hotness midway through the second trip to Aman and ended up never finishing it, but he’s still numbered among the Caliquendi. I can’t remember Elrond ever doing anything particularly godlike; the closest I can think of is the fact that he was clearly a better healer than Gandalf (and that can easily be explained). Even if he was smarter than the average Elda, though, that can be explained by his being part Maia. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-the-early-very-powerful-elves-and-humans-in-tolkiens-world-kind-of-like-gods/543614/30 "2010-06-18T20:15:29Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Is it certain? My impression was that Elvish women always know when they have conceived, not that every instance of sex leads to conception. Have you a cite for the latter? You are correct; I had misremembered. A good overview on the topic of Elf-sex: [http://www.fanpop.com/external/2492](http://www.fanpop.com/external/2492) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arent-the-early-very-powerful-elves-and-humans-in-tolkiens-world-kind-of-like-gods/543614.md?page=1)