# ARG220 A Good Debater? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 12, 1999, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286 "1999-09-12T07:29:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AuraSeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c2a13f/32.png) [@AuraSeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuraSeer)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 1999, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/1 "1999-09-12T07:29:00Z")
There’s a thread in GD titled [ARG220 And Mormonism](http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000335.html). In it, ARG has posted the following: > [@](#): > > If I wanted to go against Bill, and all the Mormons, you wouldn’t be able to stop me. You wouldn’t even be able to contain me. 😉 I’d rock the very foundations of their religion to the core, and they’d all be weeping from guilt and sorrow when I was through with them. He seems to think he’s pretty good at communicating ideas, and convincing people that he’s right. I personally think that ARG’s debating skills are exactly zero. He writes opinion and conjecture as fact; his arguments contain many logical fallacies; when his points are refuted, he either simply repeats himself, or ignores the poster entirely. He also is very selective about the questions he answers, refusing to respond to anything that might catch him in a contradiction. Am I wrong? Has ARG ever shown the ability to debate intelligently? Has he managed to sway even one person to his point of view? (ARG, note that I am making no religious references of any kind. I am not bashing your beliefs, nor am I disparaging Christianity in general. This is a comment on what I see as laughable hubris, in your belief that you would easily out-debate your opponents. IMO, you couldn’t argue your way out of a wet paper bag.) * * * Of course I don’t fit in; I’m part of a better puzzle. ---
**Author:** ![Contestant\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Contestant\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contestant_3)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 1999, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/2 "1999-09-12T08:05:00Z")
What do you expect Auraseer? With you being a witch and casting “magik” spells, you’ve pretty much got him at your “magikal” mercy… Give the kid a break, he’s but a mere mortal. Go play with another witch you bitch. * * * Contestant #3 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 1999, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/3 "1999-09-12T09:18:00Z")
Connie, are you switching your vindictive and personal attacks to Auraseer, or just adding him to your list? I notice that you’ve been on an anti-witchcrat kick all over the board, even on topics _such as this one_ that have nothing to do with the subject. As far as ARG220 goes, ignorance of the subject does not make for a great debate. Participating in a debate on Mormonism without having read The Book of Mormon is like being a blind art critic. Someone may give you a pretty accurate description, but you still aren’t qualified to judge. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 1999, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/4 "1999-09-12T14:24:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Am I wrong? Has ARG ever shown the ability to debate intelligently? Has > he managed to sway even one person to his point of view? ## Not only NO, but HELL FUCKING NO! If anything, he has done more damage to the Christian faith than any one of his debaters could even hope to accomplish. \>^,^\< KITTEN Coarse and violent nudity. Occasional language. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 1999, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/5 "1999-09-12T19:34:00Z")
This thread may actually mean something, IF I thought I was a good debater. BUT, I don’t think that I am. I said that I like to argue, and that I’m good at arguing. (Or as Monty said, that I’m “good at getting into arguments.”) Besides, Auraseer’s quoting me from the Mormon thread is out of context. If I were to try and debunk Mormonism, it wouldn’t be a “debate.” All it would be is me showing some Scripture verse, and then comparing it to passages in the BOM, and D&C. > [@](#): > > Has he managed to sway even one person to his point of view? An interesting question. I’d say the answer is no. But I’d also say that nobody on this board has changed anyone else’s mind while debating. Witness some of the Great Debates. While there are many on this board with excellent communication skills, and vast knowledge, nobody actually has a change of heart, or has their views changed. Everyone just keeps arguing until they get tired, and the thread is abandonded. Adam * * * “Life is hard…but God is good” ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 1999, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/6 "1999-09-12T20:21:00Z")
As I have pointed out in the “ARG220 and Mormonism” thread, Adam tends to use two different standards in his posts. He approaches the Bible as being inerrant and infallible, while he approaches all other religious literature as being “offenders for a word,” so to speak. While he will not blink at a glaring biblical self-contradiction, he will jump on the tiniest fault he sees in the Book of Mormon and instantly proclaim that book false. When Adam ceases to have a double standard (one for his logic and quite another for others’), he will become a much better debater, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![vanillanice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ecc23a/32.png) [@vanillanice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanillanice)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 1999, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/7 "1999-09-12T21:02:00Z")
Notice,how in the mormonism thread arg says he loves to argue. Not that he loves to tell people about Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Contestant\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Contestant\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contestant_3)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 1999, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/8 "1999-09-12T21:23:00Z")
Slythe, Are you jealous or something? Have I not been giving you enough attention? * * * Contestant #3 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 1999, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/9 "1999-09-12T23:24:00Z")
Adam: you apparently still persist in equating “good at arguing” with “good at getting into arguments.” They’re not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 1999, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/10 "1999-09-13T03:16:00Z")
ARG220 Member posted 09-12-1999 02:34 PM > [@](#): > > Besides, Auraseer’s quoting me from the Mormon thread is out of context. If I were to try and debunk Mormonism, it wouldn’t be a “debate.” All it would be is me showing some Scripture verse, and then comparing it to passages in the BOM, and D&C. This from the tyke who thinks the Book of Abraham is part of the Book of Mormon. ---
**Author:** ![AuraSeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c2a13f/32.png) [@AuraSeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuraSeer)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 1999, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/11 "1999-09-13T04:24:00Z")
ARG, my point is that you have an overly high opinion of yourself. You claim that you, singlehandedly, could “rock the very foundations of their [Mormons’] religion to the core.” Conservative Christians of every stripe have been attacking LDS beliefs for centuries; if trained debaters and learned theologians have not succeeded in convincing the Mormons they’re wrong, what makes you think that you’d manage to do it? You also claim that the Mormons here would be “weeping from guilt and sorrow when I [ARG220] was through with them.” I take this as an assertion that you would convince them that their beliefs are invalid, and make them sorry that they didn’t recognize your One True Faith immediately. Isn’t this what you meant? If not, how did you misspeak yourself so drastically? * * * Of course I don’t fit in; I’m part of a better puzzle. ---
**Author:** ![Contestant\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Contestant\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contestant_3)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 1999, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/12 "1999-09-13T04:46:00Z")
Auraseer the witch blathered: “ARG, my point is that you have an overly high opinion of yourself.” …kind of hypocritical coming from someone who’s sig line reads: ## “Of course I don’t fit in; I’m part of a better puzzle.” Contestant #3 ---
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 1999, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/13 "1999-09-13T04:58:00Z")
Auraseer, Arg probably shouldn’t have said that, or atleast made it more clear that it was a joke. But, he has stated all over the place that he was trying to kid with that statement, he had the little winky face to show he was joking. But, in reference to his debating skills, they won’t improve until he aquires more firsthand knowledge, I think he has been told that over three trillion times, one of these days he will pick up on that and start reading more than just viewpoints that agree with his own. pat ---
**Author:** ![E1skeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3da27b/32.png) [@E1skeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E1skeptic)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 1999, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/14 "1999-09-13T05:51:00Z")
Man, oh man! Why don’t we give the kid a break? Better yet, why don’t we ask the Administrators to give him his own Forum? Personally (stay away C#3, please) I think that Adam needs to learn MANY things before he continues trying to even “argue”. Maybe we could go to his forum just to post links to good sites, or recommend good books for him, and Vanillanice can tell him how much she likes him and then, maybe, he’ll change his mind about sexual innuendos. Adam is way to ignorant to be a good debater, or even a good “arguer” as he calls himself. He is way too selective when answering questions, and utterly subjective. And please, Adam, don’t say you are not. You have avoided me (and others) as much as possible. So, anyone here for creating a new forum just for Adam? * * * Men will cease to commit atrocities only when they cease to believe absurdities. -Voltaire ---
**Author:** ![Byzantine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@Byzantine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Byzantine)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 1999, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/15 "1999-09-13T06:22:00Z")
You know what folks? ARG220 has gotten more attention than possibly any poster on this board. He must be doing SOMETHING right! Hell, I’d flash my tits if I thought I could garner even 1/3 of the attention ARG220 gets! Kisses all around! ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 1999, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/16 "1999-09-13T13:57:00Z")
Byz, you have a point. One thing I just noticed on reading this thread is that he’s managed to get a witch to argue in behalf of the Mormons. That **has** to count for something!! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![vanillanice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ecc23a/32.png) [@vanillanice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanillanice)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 1999, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/17 "1999-09-13T14:05:00Z")
Elskeptic, Okay,I shouldn’t have posted my innuendo.I apologized the Adam already. Forget I ever said it. ---
**Author:** ![E1skeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3da27b/32.png) [@E1skeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E1skeptic)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 1999, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/18 "1999-09-13T14:24:00Z")
Hey, **Vanillanice** , I really think you were doing him a favor! I don’t see why you should’ve apologized to him. Seriously, Adam needs to become part of the real world, and a nice, gentle, and good looking woman like you would help him. Or at least that’s my opinion. Salud. ---
**Author:** ![VegForLife](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/9de0a6/32.png) [@VegForLife](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VegForLife)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 1999, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/19 "1999-09-13T16:51:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Conservative Christians of every stripe have been attacking LDS beliefs for centuries For how long? Rich ---
**Author:** ![VegForLife](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/9de0a6/32.png) [@VegForLife](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VegForLife)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 1999, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286/20 "1999-09-15T05:56:00Z")
Hmm, I guess that website I checked accidentally left off the “B.C.” after “1830.” Rich [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arg220-a-good-debater/2286.md?page=2)