# Argent Towers, a moment of your time. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 16, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227 "2010-02-16T18:23:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/381 "2010-02-17T18:46:37Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > No one ever called anyone a pedophile and meant it. Even if one person did, how does that equate to a “mob?” ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/382 "2010-02-17T18:53:42Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > So basically, you’re telling me you’re afraid FOR Argent, because FBI guys might be watching? While I did skim through the thread, I didn’t really get too much of the “we’re afraid FOR you, not AT you” vibe towards Argent. And this goes back to me thinking people are making too big of a deal. Let’s say the FBI is watching. What can they do, arrest him because he RECOMMENDED a book? Even cops pretending to be teens chatting with pedophiles have to adhere by certain rules, and one of them being that they never initiate the sex talk. I don’t think recommending a book over the internet to a kid can ever be a crime. It’s very clearly covered by the First Amendment. Remember, he only recommended the book. Over the internet. At no point did he sit Curtis down give him a book. Curtis is free to ignore or read it at his leisure > …{snippage}… > > No, you think the BOOK is odious, thus it clouds your perspective. Doing it by PM is a good way to try and keep it off the boards, which unfortunately didn’t work. Defending it was fine, he didn’t do anything THAT bad. And who cares about his parents? Lots of people are parents, doesn’t make them good. If his parents said it was ok, would they be good parents, or would they be bad parents? It’s not a big deal, sheesh 😛 I can’t speak for anyone else, but yes, a primary motivation for me is concern that AT, like many young people, has an incomplete grasp of how his actions can be viewed by others and on this particular subject there is the potential for some incredibly Kafkaesque Grand Guignol of the authoritarian variety. You may not realize that there’s some weird shit out there happening in the name of protecting the children and some innocent people are getting tarred with some very filthy brushes and having their lives ruined because they assumed that something they did was completely harmless, while an authority figured differently. In this instance, if **Curtis** ’ parents got snoopy and checked out what their baby boy has been up to, and saw the PMs AT sent, and googled the book in question, I don’t think it’s a zero likelihood they might very well go to law enforcement in a panic because some strange man on the internet is not only seeking out their child to recommend pornographic material to him, but pornographic material that is specifically concerned with adults raping children. When **Curtis** replied that he didn’t think his parents would be onboard with this as a summer reading project, the response was that he should ignore his parents because they’re just trying to stunt his growth and keep him from doing things that are fun for their own meaniepants reasons–which, BTW, is EXACTLY what a predatory adult WOULD say to a child he’s interested in gaining sexual access to. So tell me, what makes you think a law enforcement person presented with these incontrovertible facts would simply say “Oh heckity, that AT guy seems like an okay dude, since I read every one of the other 11,000 posts he’s put on that board and he doesn’t strike me as a bad guy, nothing to see here, move along.”? I don’t think a LO officer would read anything more than necessary to determine that AT had made an inappropriate contact with a child and depending on the circumstances it might go no further, it might go as far as questioning or it might go as far as an arrest. Even the slightest _suspicion_ that a young man might be a sexual predator is pretty much enough to trash his social life, make job opportunities shrivel up and blow away, and cause no end of grief for decades to come and I’d really prefer not to see someone get those kind of consequences from a brain fart done way too publicly. You may think I’m an oversensitive alarmist, but you’d be very much mistaken on that call. The zero tolerance policies regarding inappropriate contacts between adults and children are a meatgrinder of epic proportions and if you get even a tiny toe stuck in there the chances are close to surety that you’re going to lose a lot more than just that one toe and might end up as sausage on the other end. I don’t know AT personally, but if I see anyone running full tilt boogie right toward the edge of a cliff I’m perfectly okay with stopping them to make sure they know what’s up ahead. If that makes me a one woman lynch mob, so be it, but I believe that people ought to make their decisions based on accurate knowledge of the situation, because handwaving away risks you aren’t personally aware of does not make those risks go away. This is not a monsters under the bed scenario, this is a don’t go swimming with a scalp wound in Australia scenario. They’re not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/383 "2010-02-17T19:00:58Z")
Folks sho is sensitive about that term ‘mob’. You know what I like to do? When I see that a lot of people have made my point over and over directed at the same poster…I like to go ahead and pass up on also adding my two cents. That is how much mob mentality bothers me. But that’s just me. Let’s say for instance, there is some mobby stuff going down in a thread, and I throw in a joke or two because I see some funnies to be had. If I do that, and I have, then I know good and well I am getting all mobby. It is not a good thing in my mind, but my desire for laughter trumps my desire to avoid pile ons. One thing I wouldn’t do though, is deny it over and over or get all sensitive about it once it was called to my attention. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/384 "2010-02-17T19:03:18Z")
There’s nothing to deny. There was no mob. People backed off AT very quickly afterhe admitted he made a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/385 "2010-02-17T19:06:47Z")
My goodness yes, I said that he _might_ be a pedophile. The behavior he showed, his insistence that Curtis is oh-so-mature and special, and the pushy bent of the PMs he later revealed are frankly not out of line with how a pedophile would think and act. That said, I believe he is not, but no I am not going to sit here and say that I am 100% certain. The rest of you can swear up and down that you know the deepest secrets of all your mild internet acquaintances and would swear to their character before God and a court of law, but I’m not gonna go that far. I will say that he is probably not, and leave it there. I posted the “den of sexual predators” bit 24 hours after the post was reported, when no official action had been taken (and no, Marley going in without his mod hat on and going “whelp gee, maybe that’s a bad idea” does not count). Ed has stepped in and made a sensible call, but it’s fucking staggering that _no one else_ knew how to handle a situation that could potentially endanger the board. If the situation calls for more than policing swear words and shutting down jokes threads, you guys have no fucking clue what to do (as evidenced by the recent Cesario) kerfluffle. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/386 "2010-02-17T19:08:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There’s nothing to deny. There was no mob. People backed off AT very quickly afterhe admitted he made a mistake. What if he had said, “more rocks” instead? Look. I’m just fucking with you now. If you all say you weren’t mobbing, fine. I’m just telling you how it looks to me. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/387 "2010-02-17T19:09:17Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > You know what I like to do? When I see that a lot of people have made my point over and over directed at the same poster…I like to go ahead and pass up on also adding my two cents. That is how much mob mentality bothers me. But that’s just me. How would you know if anyone else has already made your point? > [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I didn’t read this thread, but I know one thing. Fuck babysitting on the internet. If a poster comes to play with the grownups, they may get exposed to some grownup weirdos. I’m not about to start polishing my throwing stones just because someone suggested some creepy reading to a kid that posts on a board that talks about all manners of creepy shit all the time. OH NO I DI’INT!! Edit: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/388 "2010-02-17T19:09:38Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If you haven’t raped a dead ass, you haven’t raped yet. A dead ass that spouts money after it’s been raped. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/389 "2010-02-17T19:10:48Z")
> [@Myrnalene](#): > > You can take the time and energy to write this lengthy post, but can’t spend 20 minutes reading the thread? What is it with people so anxious to have their Special Argument heard that they can’t even check to see if they will look like fools before they do? Several people including myself expressed to Argent that it was very dangerous for _him_ to be so indiscriminate. Didn’t I get the argument correct? Do you really think some FBI guy is going to make any arrests here? Would they really have a case? Stop being afraid for him, he’s a big boy and he can take care of himself. There’s a lot of anger here and it doesn’t seem to be constructively directed. Lots of people are mad AT Argent, not for him. I just think it’s a silly thing to do > [@Myrnalene](#): > > Argent Towers admitted it was wrong hours ago and apologized, yet his supporters are still wanking themselves to a froth over it. If you call defending his right to do those actions “wanking” then I wonder what you would call it if I really gave a damn. The fact is I didn’t see a problem with what he did. Given the reaction he got, it’s not surprising he’d back down, but some of us divorced from the issue see it as nothing more than a PM chat between two people. I don’t think Argent did anything that wrong and I’m going to say it. It says more about you that you attack me for defending that position than it does about me. Your juvenile attempt at goading me into some angry retort is wasted because I find this whole thing unworthy of being a half-way serious pit. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Nobody thinks that **AT** is a pedophile, **Yog**. We think he made an ill-advised and irresponsible decision that had the potential to really blow up in his face. My attitude was not that he was a creep or a predator, but that he needed to watch his ass. From all my experience working with kids, I know that you have to be very careful and aware of every interaction, and how it could appear to others (not to mention how it could be characterized by the kid). I think I mentioned that Dio. I said a lot of people seem to be worried FOR him, but they come off rather harsh and post like they are worried about him being a pedophile. Call me crazy, but if you’re worried for someone, you generally don’t say things like “…beat the everloving fuck out of him”, “Argent Towers deserves to be sanctioned for this action”, “Being obsessed with a book about a sexually abused 13 year old is creepy. Recommending that book to an actual 13 year old is way beyond creepy. It is, at best, fucking retarded”, plus what Marley said. Look, I agree that what he did was probably not the wisest move. But I also think it’s harmless, silly, funny, and doesn’t deserve the kind of attention it got in this post. A quick nudge and “hey Argent, that was boneheaded” was probably sufficient. Personally all this bruhaha (is that how you spell it?) has gotten me interested in this book. I may go pick it up at the library if they have it ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/390 "2010-02-17T19:12:17Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > How would you know if anyone else has already made your point? > > OH NO I DI’INT!! > > Edit: 😃 Too fucking shay! ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/391 "2010-02-17T19:17:37Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > I can’t speak for anyone else, but yes, a primary motivation for me is concern that AT, like many young people, has an incomplete grasp of how his actions can be viewed by others and on this particular subject there is the potential for some incredibly Kafkaesque Grand Guignol of the authoritarian variety. > > [snip] > > If that makes me a one woman lynch mob, so be it, but I believe that people ought to make their decisions based on accurate knowledge of the situation, because handwaving away risks you aren’t personally aware of does not make those risks go away. This is not a monsters under the bed scenario, this is a don’t go swimming with a scalp wound in Australia scenario. They’re not the same thing. Ok, you make a lot of good points there and generally, I agree with you that such a thing CAN happen. Possible, but to me, very unlikely. Because ultimately, the fact here is that a guy recommended a book. Maybe not an appropriate book, but still it’s a recommendation of literature. Nobody’s sending naked pictures, nobody’s requesting it. As far as I know, Argent didn’t copy obscene lines from the book and send it to Curtis. So maybe his parents get freaked out and call the cops. So what? I’m not a lawyer, but I’m convinced the cops are going to say that anyone can recommend anything they want. It’s when they show the book/picture/video is when they cross the line. Argent didn’t make available anything that Curtis couldn’t get himself, all he did was let him know such a thing exists. That’s why I believe the emotions ran a little too high for no good reason. It would be the same if I said to Curtis “hey kid, google ‘goatse’”. Am I responsible for what he does next? No. Neither would Argent be if all he did was recommend a book. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/392 "2010-02-17T19:19:28Z")
> [@Myrnalene](#): > > My goodness yes, I said that he _might_ be a pedophile. And all I’m doing is pointing out that you said that. > [@](#): > > The behavior he showed, his insistence that Curtis is oh-so-mature and special, and the pushy bent of the PMs he later revealed are frankly not out of line with how a pedophile would think and act. That said, I believe he is not, but no I am not going to sit here and say that I am 100% certain. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > I posted the “den of sexual predators” bit 24 hours after the post was reported What a lame excuse this is. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > Personally all this bruhaha (is that how you spell it?) has gotten me interested in this book. I may go pick it up at the library if they have it _The library?_ Careful, man. I heard that’s a den of textual predators. Bibliophiles and shit! ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/393 "2010-02-17T19:27:21Z")
> [@Who\_me\_1](#): > > That’s what they _all_ say… 😉 Yes, and it adds \*years \*to the sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/394 "2010-02-17T19:32:41Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Your juvenile attempt at goading me into some angry retort is wasted because I find this whole thing unworthy of being a half-way serious pit. I wasn’t trying to goad you into any kind of response. I really don’t care if you want to keep bleating on about how adults pushing children into reading purile child sexual abuse porn is totally ok. You could shut up about it and I would be just as happy. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > Personally all this bruhaha (is that how you spell it?) has gotten me interested in this book. I may go pick it up at the library if they have it Do enjoy your violent child pornography. > [@Marley23](#): > > :rolleyes: Seriously? If you didn’t know Argent Towers (and none of you really do, so get that out of your heads) and you heard of just such as scenario, it would not occur to you that _maybe_ the adult had untoward intentions toward the child? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/395 "2010-02-17T19:35:04Z")
On a more serious note I’ll add this: > [@Myrnalene](#): > > I posted the “den of sexual predators” bit 24 hours after the post was reported, when no official action had been taken (and no, Marley going in without his mod hat on and going “whelp gee, maybe that’s a bad idea” does not count). Suggesting **Argent Towers** was a sexual predator and bemoaning the state of the board did nothing to address your concerns or help anybody. Posting a synopsis of the book didn’t help either. **Argent Towers** brought up his bright idea Monday afternoon. I posted a little while after the post was reported, and so did a handful of other people. I hoped he would listen. **Argent Towers** didn’t say he had actually spoken to **Curtis LeMay** until late the next morning. That was the only way we knew he hadn’t listened to that advice. They say a word to the wise is sufficient. A word to **Argent Towers** wasn’t sufficient. But I didn’t know that until he started talking about the discussion they’d already had. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/396 "2010-02-17T19:40:00Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > It would be the same if I said to Curtis “hey kid, google ‘goatse’”. PSsssst. Don’t do this. Trust me on this one. . ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/397 "2010-02-17T19:46:49Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Ok, you make a lot of good points there and generally, I agree with you that such a thing CAN happen. Possible, but to me, very unlikely. Because ultimately, the fact here is that a guy recommended a book. Maybe not an appropriate book, but still it’s a recommendation of literature. Given how straitlaced and easily offended Curtis is I would assume his parents are much the same or more so. And even if they aren’t, that’s what you have to assume when dealing with kids. ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/398 "2010-02-17T19:48:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > On a more serious note I’ll add this: > Suggesting **Argent Towers** was a sexual predator and bemoaning the state of the board did nothing to address your concerns or help anybody. Posting a synopsis of the book didn’t help either. > **Argent Towers** brought up his bright idea Monday afternoon. I posted a little while after the post was reported, and so did a handful of other people. I hoped he would listen. **Argent Towers** didn’t say he had actually spoken to **Curtis LeMay** until late the next morning. That was the only way we knew he hadn’t listened to that advice. > > They say a word to the wise is sufficient. A word to **Argent Towers** wasn’t sufficient. But I didn’t know that until he started talking about the discussion they’d already had. You did nothing as a member of board staff to discourage him, you have done nothing in this thread except argue that hey not all writing is pornography (an asinine and worthless tangent since this book _is_) and give excuses for dropping the ball in the other thread. But I know that due to the schizophrenic and misjudged new rules of this board that I cannot continue this line of discussion in this forum, so I will drop it. Oh, and you pointed out that yes, I did indicate in the other thread that it is possible that AT might be a predator. I had actually forgotten I said that, but I stand by fact that yes there is a small possibility even though _oh he has so many posts here and he’s such a nice guy and no Doper would ever do such a thing._ ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/399 "2010-02-17T19:58:34Z")
It’s possible that you might be a semen-frying, goat-felching, ass-raping necrophiliac. You’re so sweet and lovable and all, but I’m just saying. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/400 "2010-02-17T20:06:22Z")
> [@Myrnalene](#): > > You did nothing as a member of board staff to discourage him I admire your delicate phrasing. 😉 It’s true: if I’d contacted him in private or warned him for bringing up the idea, maybe he wouldn’t have done it. I didn’t think making the suggestion, however inappropriate, was against the rules, and I thought the ‘this is a bad idea’ would be enough to get the message across. Anyway, if I’d put the mod hat on, you’d have nothing to complain about, and I always aim to please. 😉 > [@](#): > > Oh, and you pointed out that yes, I did indicate in the other thread that it is possible that AT might be a predator. …several times. But you make a good point: there’s no way to know if someone is a child predator or not, so we might as well call him one if we get the chance, because if we don’t… help me out here. Do people still say “the terorrists win?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227.md?page=21)