# Argent Towers, a moment of your time. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 16, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227 "2010-02-16T18:23:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/61 "2010-02-16T20:02:50Z")
Come to think of it, it’s pretty creepy to tell a 13-year-old that they have a lot to learn about degenerate behavior. I mean, geez, don’t most 13-year-olds? I hope so. That doesn’t mean it’s my job or yours to fill them in. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/62 "2010-02-16T20:08:14Z")
When that 13 year old is on a high horse lecturing all of us about degenerate behavior (and by using a stupid ad for a swimsuit magazine as an example) then I’ll give him a piece of my mind, frankly. I’ve said it before. He can dish it out, he can take it. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/63 "2010-02-16T20:08:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I did not tell anyone to ignore anything. I told people to take their objections out of the thread, which they were good enough to do. But while we’re here, what would you have us do? I don’t know, tell him not to use the board to inappropriately communicate with young kids? But it’s your message board, man, if you think that’s a good use of it, then have at it. ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/64 "2010-02-16T20:11:32Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I responded (with the mod hat off) a few minutes after the post was first reported, and I’ve passed the reports and my opinions to the rest of the staff for further consideration. > > At the moment I’ll say this: this was a really stupid move on **Argent Towers** ’s part. Less so if he forgot how young **Curtis LeMay** says he is, but still not bright. But I don’t think it breaks any kind of a rule. It’s not sexual harassment, it’s not grooming, for crying out loud. Those things are not even in the same universe as _recommending a book._ The recommendation was inappropriate, certainly. It’s not a book I’m ever going to read, or one I would ever suggest to a 13-year-old, no matter how mature he or she might be. But let’s give **Curtis LeMay** a little bit of credit here. He can be very naive but he’s capable of deciding whether or not he wants to read a book. He’s not a moron. > > Further I’ll point this out: we’ve discussed similar books here many times before, along with who knows how many other racy subjects, and nobody knows how many 13-year-old (or younger) lurkers or posters read those threads. > His stated preference was for children who are too young to post here, although if we were told he’d contacted anyone we would have dealt with that. The fact that **Argent Towers** made his suggestion by PM instead of in a thread doesn’t make a difference to me. > I did not tell anyone to ignore anything. I told people to take their objections out of the thread, which they were good enough to do. But while we’re here, what would you have us do? Ladies and gentlemen, the Straight Dope Message Board. Where child porn is fit for children but dirty words aren’t fit for adults. Good luck, you poor bastards. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/65 "2010-02-16T20:11:48Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > When that 13 year old is on a high horse lecturing all of us about degenerate behavior (and by using a stupid ad for a swimsuit magazine as an example) then I’ll give him a piece of my mind, frankly. > > I’ve said it before. He can dish it out, he can take it. He’s a teenager who thinks he knows everything. They do that. Did you not get the memo? Any ‘correction’ is going to be ignored and by the time he learns better you and this place will be a distant memory. Let him find out the hard way. Or does it bother you that much that you’re being judged by some kid on the internet? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/66 "2010-02-16T20:11:55Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > … then I’ll give him a piece of my mind, frankly. I don’t think you have it to spare. ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/67 "2010-02-16T20:12:41Z")
I want to apologize. Someone started a thread requesting “evil” books, I suggested Hogg, and Argent Towers took that and ran with it. Knowing now what I knew then, I’d have kept my mouth shut. And for the record, if an adult suggested that book to a child or young teen in my care, I would assume they had ulterior motives. (Even if that motive is simply, ‘let’s fuck with a kid’s mind in a major way’.) It’s art, but not all art is for 13 year olds. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/68 "2010-02-16T20:13:51Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > When that 13 year old is on a high horse lecturing all of us about degenerate behavior (and by using a stupid ad for a swimsuit magazine as an example) then I’ll give him a piece of my mind, frankly. > > I’ve said it before. He can dish it out, he can take it. So this really is a question of pure social retardation, then? You just feel the need to compare swinging dicks (metaphorically) with a thirteen year old? ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/69 "2010-02-16T20:18:01Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > What bothered people was that you mentioned it _incessantly_. Being obsessed with a book about a sexually abused 13 year old is creepy. Recommending that book to an actual 13 year old is way beyond creepy. It is, at best, fucking retarded. At worst, well… sorry kiddo, but it comes off sufficiently vicious circle as to make me wonder what YOUR childhood was like. Yes, yes, yes. His yak cock stupidity was just eyerollingly obnoxious but his obsession with that book puts him in a whole different freak zone. Can’t he just go back to his homoerotic fantasies about dead guys from the Middle Ages? ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/70 "2010-02-16T20:20:57Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I believe that he is 13. And if he was some 13 year old kid who was just posting about baseball and video games and his English homework and what movies he liked, or whatever, it’s not like I’d barge in and demand that he read something vulgar and potentially upsetting. But he is a 13 year old kid who apparently possesses both a high degree of self-awareness and an aggressive, stubborn insistence to push his ideological views on others. My grandson is thirteen, extremely smart and advanced for his age in many ways and has had the editors of various publications print his opinion letters since he was ten with no one realizing his age–yet he’s perfectly capable of being confused about sexuality, appropriate behaviors and how far is too far. If some adult recommended that book to him I’d seek that adult out and at the \*very \*least we’d have an extremely uncomfortable (for them) discussion about age appropriate reading materials and the inadvisability of bypassing parental oversight of what sort of media a child should be exposed to. At thirteen a kid should be obsessing over whether or not he’s going to kiss his girlfriend, not reading about some poor child being used as a cum dumpster by a series of disgusting men. The point has been made that the book in question has the power to make YOU, a putative adult, obsessive to a remarkably uncomfortable degree with it–why, precisely, would I want my much beloved grandchild to risk becoming equally captivated? How, exactly, would you propose I go about discussing this book with him, as I do many of the books he reads, to answer his questions about the material and how it should be reconciled to his own world view and perceptions? Answer is–fuck dude, _I_ refuse to read the fucking book out of sheer distaste, I certainly don’t want to be forced to read it just to have a snowball’s chance of helping him cope with the sequelae of experiencing such a sordid and appalling batch of subject matter. You wanna read that shit, bully for you–but DO NOT presume to saddle someone else with the nasty chore of trying to help a child out with a brain bleach soak to get it out of his head. Have your own goddamned kids and teach them any filthy shit you like and hopefully CPS will be there to explain to you where you crossed the line. Since you don’t have the responsibility to ensure **Curtis’** reconciliation with the subject matter, you also do not have the privilege of suggesting it to him. Period. > [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Expose them to child pornography? You’re acting like I sent him magazine full of kiddie porn in an overnight mailer. I didn’t “expose” him to anything. He is free to seek out that book if he wants to and read it, and also free not to read it at all. And by referring to it as “child pornography” you’re using loaded terminology. The book in question is a literary work by a very well-respected author, and was praised by Norman Mailer. Seriously, is this incredibly lame appeal to authority the best you can do to defend this piece of trash? Fuck you, the horse you rode in on, and Norman Mailer too–just because coprophiles exist doesn’t mean every fucking restaurant on the face of the planet should have shit sammiches on the menu. You wanna lick Delany’s filthy taint, you go right ahead, but leave the kids out of it–you obviously still have not gained enough perspective, wisdom and insight to be guiding the literary education of a child. The fact that you can’t go ten minutes without fapping over this one fucking book shows how incredibly juvenile you yourself still are and quite frankly the adults on the board have been trying like blue hell to let you know this, but as is typical for the mentally and socially undeveloped you seem fairly incapable of taking a fucking hint. Have you considered reading maybe another book sometime? Maybe something that’s uplifting to more than your bedsheets? ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/71 "2010-02-16T20:26:13Z")
> [@Myrnalene](#): > > Ladies and gentlemen, the Straight Dope Message Board. Where child porn is fit for children but dirty words aren’t fit for adults. > > Good luck, you poor bastards. Be careful, lest ye get [schooled](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12087932&postcount=241) in the difference between topics and language. > [@filling\_pages](#): > > I want to apologize. Someone started a thread requesting “evil” books, I suggested Hogg, and Argent Towers took that and ran with it. Knowing now what I knew then, I’d have kept my mouth shut. Please don’t take responsibility for someone else’s bad judgment. You neither caused his obsession nor suggested that he recommend that book to minors. This place is fucking bizarro-land. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/72 "2010-02-16T20:28:36Z")
It was incredibly bad judgement, AT. You don’t recommend pedophile rape porn to children. It doesn’t matter how lofty you believe your motives were. You are not his parent. It’s not your job or your place to “open his mind.” I don’t think you intended any harm. I don’t think you intended anything sinister or sleazy. I think you got a little too far up your own ass with your own righteous idealism (I’ve got a closet full of those T-shirts myself) and forgot who you were talking to, and what the real world consequences could be. Yes, in a text-based medium, it’s easy to lose perspective on who the real people are that you’re talking to, especially when they’re as precocious and bright as **Curtis** is, but dude, when it comes to kids, you have to draw a line. It doesn’t matter how you personally feel about what kids should be exposed to, you have to be aware of how things look to others, and you have to be respectful of their parents, who are actually doing the real world, hard, dirty job of raising these kids and guidfing them, and correcting them, and loving them and _knowing_ them. I’m a very _laissez faire_ parent myself. My kids watch _South Park_ and _Family Guy_ with me. I play GTA games with them. I’m not especially protective, but I would not do those things with someone else’s kids without explicit permission, and I have to say that if someone were to contact one of my kids in a PM and recommend the book that you recommended, I would be pissed. That’s a book that I, as a 43 year old, can’t get my head around. b]Curtis\*\* is a kid who thinks masturbation is naught, and uses phrases like “burning with lust,” without irony. He’s probably never seen porn in his life, and you’re going to recommend something that makes your average _Beeline_ novel look like Judy Blume? Poor judgement, bro. I used to work with kids as a teacher and ran some summer day camps and after school clubs. If I had recommended this book to a student, I would have been fired, and no philosophical justification would have saved me. You can get yourself into serious trouble with this shit. It _looks bad_. Use some common sense. Hell, and I was worried that the debate about whether masturbation was a sin might be a little on the edge for discussion with a 13 year old. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/73 "2010-02-16T20:29:42Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > You wanna lick Delany’s filthy taint, you go right ahead, but leave the kids out of it–you obviously still have not gained enough perspective, wisdom and insight to be guiding the literary education of a child. I do find it amusing that you originally wrote “Delany’s long-dead filthy taint”. I was going to reply to tell you that Delany is very much alive, but I guess you figured that out on your own. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/74 "2010-02-16T20:30:54Z")
So it’s official then. We all have to be extra careful not to post anything that offends “the children”. :rolleyes: What a bunch of sanctimonious fucks. Marley, since you are posting, can I ask what the minimum age for posting on this board is? > [@tacoloco](#): > > Yeah, this is pretty much my whole point. You’ve ever had a point? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/75 "2010-02-16T20:31:26Z")
Nobody but you gives a shit about Delany. Do try to stay on topic, dear. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/76 "2010-02-16T20:32:35Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > I don’t know, tell him not to use the board to inappropriately communicate with young kids? But it’s your message board, man, if you think that’s a good use of it, then have at it. It’s not my board, but the subject is under discussion. > [@Myrnalene](#): > > Ladies and gentlemen, the Straight Dope Message Board. Where child porn is fit for children but dirty words aren’t fit for adults. Modding concerns aside, “porn” does not mean “something I think is gross.” I’m not going to read this thing to find out if it’s porn or not, but I’ll make that general point on literary grounds. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/77 "2010-02-16T20:33:03Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > When that 13 year old is on a high horse lecturing all of us about degenerate behavior (and by using a stupid ad for a swimsuit magazine as an example) then I’ll give him a piece of my mind, frankly. > > I’ve said it before. He can dish it out, he can take it. A 13 year old doesn’t have enough actual perspective or life experience to have much of a horse to get up on, much less a high one. As an adult, you should know this. And if you don’t then you really have no business discussing much of anything with a 13 year old. Stop thinking of kids as miniature adults. And for fucks sake, stop defending your lousy actions. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/78 "2010-02-16T20:34:50Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Marley, since you are posting, can I ask what the minimum age for posting on this board is? From the registration agreement: > [@SDMB registration agreement as of 12/29/2008](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-registration-agreement-as-of-12-29-2008/406370/1): > > Minimum age for registration on the SDMB is 13 years. Registrants found to be younger than 13 will have their posting privileges revoked and forfeit any subscription fees. SDMB content is intended for mature audiences; parents or guardians paying subscription fees for children aged 13 through 17 are responsible for determining whether the SDMB is a suitable environment for their child. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/79 "2010-02-16T20:36:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s not my board, but the subject is under discussion. > Modding concerns aside, “porn” does not mean “something I think is gross.” I’m not going to read this thing to find out if it’s porn or not, but I’ll make that general point on literary grounds. Yeah, I don’t think there’s any question that _Hogg_ is actual pornography. We’re all mostly adults here, **Marley** , we understand the difference between “eww, that makes me uncomfortable” and porno. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/80 "2010-02-16T20:36:59Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > You’ve ever had a point? Yeah, I got a point. You’re an asshole. And do try to stay on topic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227.md?page=5)