# Argent Towers, a moment of your time. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 16, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227 "2010-02-16T18:23:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/141 "2010-02-16T21:32:05Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I really don’t see what’s difficult to understand about the distinction between writing on the board to a general audience, and deliberately contacting what we must presume to be a minor. > > You know, I’ve got my own doubts about Curtis. But being a grownup and all, I’d err on the side of caution. Because grownups are expected to behave in grownup ways. Well said. I’m seeing a lot of ‘I read…’ ‘I saw…’ ‘I did…’ as if it matters. I doubt Curtis’ parents would give a blue fuck (heh) about what any of you did when you were all 13. I rather think they care about what their 13 year old does. That he said no and stated that his parents would prefer he not read such material is pretty impressive considering how much material is available on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/142 "2010-02-16T21:33:20Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Of course you do. And I **do** think you and others are being sanctimonious offenderati about it. Which is why you’re getting sanctimonious about our sanctimony? Because otherwise you don’t really care, right? That’s why you keep coming back, to tell us what we shouldn’t care about. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/143 "2010-02-16T21:34:28Z")
> [@Myrnalene](#): > > I assume this was in response to Curtis telling you that his parents wouldn’t want him to buy whatever you were selling. You really, really shouldn’t have kept pressing the point. > > You are an idiot. If you’re not careful you are going to end up in serious trouble one of these days. This. Note my parental reaction above. Even if what AT did was because of his enthusiasm for the book from an artistic point of view, the court system ain’t nearly as interested in what he thinks is art. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/144 "2010-02-16T21:35:14Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Remember when people were squicked out by **EC**? I think this is now the same thing with **AT**. Maybe some people are. Maybe you are; that’s OK, you have the right to be. I don’t know about everyone else. But like I said, I don’t expect everyone to like me. I realize there are some people who are going to be against me, and it doesn’t bother me. [QUOTE=Syntropy] Sure. On the other hand there’s a big difference between a person taking it upon themselves to search for something and having that thing offered to you by someone much, much older who has been known to obsess over that subject. [/QUOTE] “Offered to you”? Did I offer to buy him a copy of the book and send it to him? All I did was make its availability known to him. In any case, you should clearly be able to see that I was trying to get the guy to think about the power of language and the idea of “degeneracy” and other issues that pertain to his bombastic and intense rhetoric - to try to get the guy to question some of his assumptions. I mean, he’s named after a man who stated that he wanted to bomb a country “into the stone age,” e.g. commit nuclear genocide. If the real-life Curtis LeMay got his wish, an entire nation would have had its flesh melted off and be scorched into rubble. Can you imagine the magnitude of that? And yet he blithely adopts the name of this man as his own - and that’s not fucked up at all, but some transgressive literature is? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/145 "2010-02-16T21:35:17Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Yet three times in the last couple of months I have seen things that scream for moderation and yet nothing happens until the boardmembers scream and scream. Let me come in at the beginning again: I understand why people are upset about this. It was a very stupid thing to do for a crapload of reasons. But I contacted the staff after post 4, so the screaming didn’t bring the staff response as far as I’m concerned. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It is an explicitly pornographic novel. > [snip] > . People calling it porn are not just characterizing it that way capriciously. That is its factual genre. > [@Erdosain](#): > > According to Wikipedia, Delany himself has endorsed the label of pornography for _Hogg_ (it references Samuel Delany - Shorter Views - Ch 13 “Pornography and Censorship”). Very well. Stupid of me to bring up that tangent. My apologies. **Argent Towers** , those PMs really don’t help you because of the way you appear to be pressing your case. It’s a valid point on its own, but in context of the book you’re recommending, it looks worse. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/146 "2010-02-16T21:35:27Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > As a parent I err on the side of caution when it comes to my kids. My first assumption would be that he was grooming him and I’d probably call the cops, especially after he suggested Curtis ignore his parents’ wishes. That strikes me as insanely overparanoid. I’d certainly talk to the suggester and find out what the hell his deal was–and if he didn’t respond or responded poorly, I might well report same to the moderators, but calling the cops strikes me as entirely overboard. Man, just given your criteria you’d have called the cops on me a few times when I was a teenager myself, if the default is “read this (smutty thing involving BDSM/rape), it’s awesome. Your parents will hate it? Don’t tell 'em.” = call cops. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/147 "2010-02-16T21:37:42Z")
I don’t have anything to add to this thread because I couldn’t care less if I tried about whether or not Curtis Le May is reading porn, or if someone told him to. I do have to say that this is funny as shit: > [@bucketybuck](#): > > I bet **St Anger** is calling his contact in the FBI as we speak… ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/148 "2010-02-16T21:38:43Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Man, just given your criteria you’d have called the cops on me a few times when I was a teenager myself, if the default is “read this (smutty thing involving BDSM/rape), it’s awesome. Your parents will hate it? Don’t tell 'em.” = call cops. Were you an adult recommending them to a 13-yr-old child? > **[Sexual grooming](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_grooming)** > > Sexual grooming is the action or behavior used to establish an emotional connection with a vulnerable person – generally a minor under the age of consent – and sometimes the victim's family, to lower their inhibitions with the objective of sexual abuse. It can occur in various settings, including online, in person, and through other means of communication. Children who are groomed may experience mental health issues, including "anxiety, depression, post-traumatic stress, and sui Before the term "... ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/149 "2010-02-16T21:40:47Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > “Offered to you”? Did I offer to buy him a copy of the book and send it to him? All I did was make its availability known to him. > > In any case, you should clearly be able to see that I was trying to get the guy to think about the power of language and the idea of “degeneracy” and other issues that pertain to his bombastic and intense rhetoric - to try to get the guy to question some of his assumptions. Make up your mind. Either you agree it was a mistake and a stupid thing to do, or you think it was just fine. In any case, your continuing encouragement after he specifically stated his parents would not want him reading it merely serves to compound the issue. What you think he should know about degeneracy is irrelevant. > [@](#): > > I mean, he’s named after a man who stated that he wanted to bomb a country “into the stone age,” e.g. commit nuclear genocide. If the real-life Curtis LeMay got his wish, an entire nation would have had its flesh melted off and be scorched into rubble. Can you imagine the magnitude of that? And yet he blithely adopts the name of this man as his own - and that’s not fucked up at all, but some transgressive literature is? Remind me. Which of you is the adult? ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/150 "2010-02-16T21:41:03Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > At 13 (or around there), I read _Naked Lunch_, _The Satanic Bible_, and _Last Exit To Brooklyn_. They certainly didn’t give me nightmares or turn me into a perv. Fact is, 13 year-olds generally _love_ transgressive shit. Go sit in the audience of any slasher/torture-porn movie if you doubt me. Hogg is much more fucked up than any of those books. Every page, every paragraph, lovingly details heavy racism, shit eating, child rape, rape in general, raunch sex, piss drinking, sexual violence, incest, and so on. If you have not read it, it is much, much more explicitly, violently pornographic than you are thinking. Do I think it would lead to a kid becoming a rapist? No, of course not. But it is probably the only book I own that I would not let a minor borrow. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/151 "2010-02-16T21:45:59Z")
> [@filling\_pages](#): > > Hogg is much more fucked up than any of those books. Every page, every paragraph, lovingly details heavy racism, shit eating, child rape, rape in general, raunch sex, piss drinking, sexual violence, incest, and so on. If you have not read it, it is much, much more explicitly, violently pornographic than you are thinking. > > Do I think it would lead to a kid becoming a rapist? No, of course not. But it is probably the only book I own that I would not let a minor borrow. Yeah, I know. Let’s count up how many people have been killed in the name of _Hogg_, and compare that to how many people have been killed in the name of _The Holy Bible._ Ready? Start counting! I will apologize for what I did (I actually already did.) It was stupid; talking to him via PM was stupid; actually, bringing up the book at all was stupid, especially since I had said that I wasn’t going to do it anymore, and I failed to carry that out. But with all that said, I wish people would just grasp the point I was trying to make. This has absolutely nothing to do with “child grooming.” ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/152 "2010-02-16T21:46:04Z")
> [@](#): > > See, the issue here is, why do your parents not want you to read that? Think about it for a minute. Do they think that if you read it, you’ll turn from a nice kid into some kind of evil monster? Do they think it will corrupt you somehow? If so, then they are doing a disservice to your own intelligence. Ok this is over the line, in a pm, in my opinion. The real question is where are the freaking moderators? Hello??? _::::criskets::::::_ Helllo??? Do your damn jobs! ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/153 "2010-02-16T21:47:10Z")
> [@filling\_pages](#): > > Hogg is much more fucked up than any of those books. Every page, every paragraph, lovingly details heavy racism, shit eating, child rape, rape in general, raunch sex, piss drinking, sexual violence, incest, and so on. If you have not read it, it is much, much more explicitly, violently pornographic than you are thinking. > > Do I think it would lead to a kid becoming a rapist? No, of course not. But it is probably the only book I own that I would not let a minor borrow. I’m not actually particularly worried that the material itself would screw the kid up. My guess is it probably wouldn’t. And if a friend at school gave it to him, it wouldn’t freak me out. It’s not the book, it’s an inappropriate interaction with an adult that bothers me about it. And I’m not saying that Argent Towers is “grooming” the kid, in fact, I’m taking at face value that he did it for the reasons he said. It’s STILL an inappropriate interaction. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/154 "2010-02-16T21:47:26Z")
> [@Syntropy](#): > > Which is why you’re getting sanctimonious about our sanctimony? Because otherwise you don’t really care, right? That’s why you keep coming back, to tell us what we shouldn’t care about. I think that when a variant of this is used for the millionth time on this board, the admin should give the whoever posts it a free, lifetime charter membership. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/155 "2010-02-16T21:52:11Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > The book in question is a literary work by a very well-respected author, and was praised by Norman Mailer. Even if that was true (and having Norman Mailer praise your novel is like having Ray Kroc praise your French cuisine), so’s the writings of the Marquis De Sade, Justine, The Story of O…just 'cause it’s “respected” and “literary work” doesn’t mean it’s ok to recommend to a 13 year old with Asberger’s. Look up the Comic Legal Defense Fund for an idea of some of the things that people have been prosecuted for–it doesn’t matter if it’s ‘dirty’ or not (and um, yeah, it is), it matters what Mommy and Daddy LeMay think and what they’ll do about it if they find out. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/156 "2010-02-16T21:54:07Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > As a parent I err on the side of caution when it comes to my kids. **My first assumption would be that he was grooming him** and I’d probably call the cops, especially after he suggested Curtis ignore his parents’ wishes. Granted, I’m not a parent, but I find it odd that your first reaction is to think that someone is trying to fuck your kid. Not just fuck your kid, but spend countless amounts of time grooming your child for the NAMBLA relationship, all to whisk them away into a twisted, sodomy-laden relationship. My first thought would, needless to say, not be that. **Edit to add** : I get erring on the side of caution and wouldn’t chastise that at all. I’m just saying that I find it odd the default assumption that someone wants to sodomize your kid is reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/157 "2010-02-16T21:55:59Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Granted, I’m not a parent, but I find it odd that your first reaction is to think that someone is trying to fuck your kid. Not just fuck your kid, but spend countless amounts of time grooming your child for the NAMBLA relationship, all to whisk them away into a twisted, sodomy-laden relationship. > > My first thought would, needless to say, not be that. I don’t think it’s odd. I’m not sure what the red flags are to look out for, but it seems reasonable that privately contacting the kid on the internet to recommend child porn might be one. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/158 "2010-02-16T21:56:39Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Granted, I’m not a parent… Then shut the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/159 "2010-02-16T22:00:11Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Granted, I’m not a parent, but I find it odd that your first reaction is to think that someone is trying to fuck your kid. Not just fuck your kid, but spend countless amounts of time grooming your child for the NAMBLA relationship, all to whisk them away into a twisted, sodomy-laden relationship. > > My first thought would, needless to say, not be that. You must not be a parent yet. First rule of parenthood is _do_ talk about parenthood. Second rule of parenthood is assume that there are 7+ billion pedophiles trying to groom your child. I prefer _Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity_, as it is easier to believe there are 7+ billion stupid people, and **AT** has already copped to that. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227/160 "2010-02-16T22:01:02Z")
Somebody should tell Curtis that if you read stuff like Hogg, God will punish you by turning you to stone. Then, if he feels himself getting hard from a book or picture, he’ll know he should stop. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argent-towers-a-moment-of-your-time/529227.md?page=9)