# Arguing for the opposition **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 26, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguing-for-the-opposition/797311 "2017-09-26T00:16:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguing-for-the-opposition/797311/21 "2017-09-26T19:03:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Isn’t it more: > > 1. Some folks believe that each state should be able to set it’s own priorities, for example whether or not people in that state should be required to buy medical insurance. > 2. Some folks believe that we must require all states to adhere to certain minimum standards, for example that everyone should be required to buy medical insurance. That’s one piece of it. I’m trying to give them a taste of some different political arguments, rather than a comprehensive understanding of one. As such, I’m more concerned about being fair to both sides than about giving all the arguments for both sides. And I’ve definitely heard people who object to government requirements that everyone have insurance. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguing-for-the-opposition/797311/22 "2017-09-26T19:13:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That’s one piece of it. I’m trying to give them a taste of some different political arguments, rather than a comprehensive understanding of one. As such, I’m more concerned about being fair to both sides than about giving all the arguments for both sides. And I’ve definitely heard people who object to government requirements that everyone have insurance. OK. I certainly think your original statement is fair. But if the issue were really “government shouldn’t be able to make people buy insurance”, then the bill would not allow states to do just that. Not a big deal, but I just think the way the bill is written, it’s more “let the states decide this issue” rather than “legislate from DC”. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguing-for-the-opposition/797311/23 "2017-09-26T19:14:39Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I am a bit surprised at the lopsidedness of the poll results thus far (16-2 in the affirmative). A follow up would be how well you think others you engage with are able to do the same. It could be one of those situations where most people think they are above average drivers. The wording of the poll wasn’t specific enough to make me despair (it just asked if you’re “adept,” not how adept). A useful concept here might be the “ideological Turing test:” instead of a computer trying to fool a human into seeing the computer as human, you do the same thing with ideology. See [The Ideological Turing Test - Econlib](http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/06/the_ideological.html) I see that someone’s posted at least one ITT online – gonna try taking it out of curiosity, and see if I think it’s a good judge of adeptness (then I’ll post a link if it is). EDIT: never mind, it’s essay-based, and I won’t have time to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguing-for-the-opposition/797311/24 "2017-09-26T19:16:48Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That said, when I talk about current events with my students, I try real hard to represent both sides of the discussion fairly. Today I talked with them about Graham-Cassidy, and I laid out the two sides very briefly as: > > 1. Some folks believe the government shouldn’t be able to make people buy insurance, because that forces people to do something they don’t want. > 2. Other people believe that if the government forces people to buy insurance, it can help make it possible for more people to pay for going to the doctor. > > Fair? I mean, super-simplified, because I had five minutes, and they’re eight, but fair? I would say it’s fair to both sides, in the sense that both sides are being hugely over-simplified, which I think you recognize. As to the OP, I would say I was better than average at arguing for the opposition. I have read the opposition on a nearly daily basis for the last seventeen years. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguing-for-the-opposition/797311/25 "2017-09-26T19:33:09Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I am a bit surprised at the lopsidedness of the poll results thus far (16-2 in the affirmative). A follow up would be how well you think others you engage with are able to do the same. It could be one of those situations where most people think they are above average drivers. It might have helped to have more than just two categories: I’m good at or I’m not good at it. I voted “good”, but I really only think I’m good at certain topics, not all of them. But I generally don’t try to argue those sides of the opposition I don’t understand that well. Should I have voted “bad” instead? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguing-for-the-opposition/797311/26 "2017-09-26T19:36:33Z")
I think I know enough about both conservative and liberal positions to be able to argue either fairly convincingly. As with the OP, my very diverse family means I frequently get into ‘discussions’ (in Hispanic terms, this generally means who can shout the loudest and make the most impressive arm-waving gestures :p) and am arguing either a liberal position against conservative family members (generally this means social conservative positions) or conservative positions against hardcore liberal members (this generally breaks down to economics or the like). It helps that I usually know more about both sides than the people arguing do, at least wrt my family. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguing-for-the-opposition/797311/27 "2017-09-26T20:19:32Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The only way I can argue the opposition is if I argue in a dishonest manner, because I already will inherently know all the reasons what I’m saying are incorrect. On contentious issues, I find there are very few viewpoints that are correct or incorrect, as a matter of fact. Given a set fact pattern, different people with the exact same set of information can come to different conclusions based on their own personal experience, value system, etc. I think being able to empathize with those that disagree is critical to arguing for the opposition. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > It might have helped to have more than just two categories: I’m good at or I’m not good at it. I think A/B questions can be more revealing than ones that have many choices on a spectrum. It’s self eval anyways 🙂 > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > 1. Some folks believe the government shouldn’t be able to make people buy insurance, because that forces people to do something they don’t want. > 2. Other people believe that if the government forces people to buy insurance, it can help make it possible for more people to pay for going to the doctor. > > Fair? I mean, super-simplified, because I had five minutes, and they’re eight, but fair? I do the same with my kids. I try to present issues and current event topics in simplified ways to capture the salient issues. It’s enlightening how easy it is to sway one way or another based on how an issue is presented. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguing-for-the-opposition/797311/28 "2017-09-27T14:08:35Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Still, I admire you for trying, and realizing that only those who are on your opposition could possibly judge how good your argument is. I hope my judgment is helpful. Nope, missed it by a mile. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguing-for-the-opposition/797311/29 "2017-09-27T14:45:31Z")
Of course. I need to stay informed enough to understand the entire issue. Knowing only one side of an issue is showing one’s idiocy. Discounting the other side’s perspective isn’t helping, either. I’m not one to argue much, though. I don’t express myself well and so I find that very few battles are worth fighting. When I do, I’m usually being incisive and sarcastic but I’m also being as authentic as my understanding will allow. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguing-for-the-opposition/797311/30 "2017-09-27T14:45:34Z")
I’m terrible at it. Generally I either can’t think what the other side would say, or can’t force myself to say it. And forget about saying it without looking extremely uncomfortable. Saying the opposite of what I believe is lying after all, and I’m a terrible liar. Even when I’m \*supposed \*to lie. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguing-for-the-opposition/797311/31 "2017-09-27T16:07:24Z")
Speaking as a social studies teacher… I am very well aware of my own beliefs and prejudices, and try very heard to make cogent arguments for religious and political views I do not share. I do it well enough that many of my students think I’m a left winger, and a few parents have complained to the principal that I am anti-Christian and Anti-Republican! ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguing-for-the-opposition/797311/32 "2017-09-27T18:59:37Z")
I can advocate for an opposition position if it is in an academic setting. However, when I meet people who are the constant devil’s advocate, they always are people I don’t ever want to see again. They get quite tiring, as they often turn into being an jerk for the sake of being a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguing-for-the-opposition/797311/33 "2017-09-27T19:26:55Z")
Regarding being disingenuous or dishonest - I don’t see it that way. If someone makes an argument but it has weaknesses or is flawed in some way, I enjoy the act of addressing those weaknesses or at least presenting counter arguments as a thought exercise. If someone were to say, Hillary Clinton wanted to raise taxes so much on the rich to make them paupers, so she could use the money to dive Scrooge McDuck style into a vault full of gold, it wouldn’t be dishonest to present her actual position, it’s goals, and potential reasons it may achieve those goals. I think it’s a valuable thing to be able to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguing-for-the-opposition/797311/34 "2017-09-27T21:25:53Z")
I’m with **Maggie**. My debate skills usually have me resorting to, “Oh, Yeah? Well \*FUCK YOU!” \* pretty quick. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguing-for-the-opposition/797311/35 "2017-09-27T21:46:49Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > On contentious issues, I find there are very few viewpoints that are correct or incorrect, as a matter of fact. Given a set fact pattern, different people with the exact same set of information can come to different conclusions based on their own personal experience, value system, etc. I think being able to empathize with those that disagree is critical to arguing for the opposition. . . I agree, but I’ve noticed lately\* that this doesn’t seem to be an accepted wisdom. Most people seem to think that there is a Right answer and a Wrong answer to every question, and if you’re on the Wrong side you don’t deserve having your argument taken seriously because you’re either too stupid, stubborn, or evil. mc (\*maybe it’s always been this way and I’ve just never noticed . . .) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguing-for-the-opposition/797311.md?page=1)