# Arguments against HPV vaccines **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 6, 2010, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380 "2010-08-06T07:09:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/21 "2010-08-06T17:49:02Z")
If I had a daughter I would absolutely get her vaccinated. But I have a son, and his pediatrician seemed very neutral about whether it was a good idea for him to have this vaccine, so he didn’t. (He’s 14. Probably not sexually active. At least with other people.) “It hurts” and “you have to go back 3x and get 3 of them” have been valid arguments against so far. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/22 "2010-08-06T17:53:23Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > “It hurts” and “you have to go back 3x and get 3 of them” have been valid arguments against so far. All vaccinations hurt, but even Jenny McCarthy never trotted out _that_ excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/23 "2010-08-06T17:54:23Z")
I’ve been treated for cervical cancer, and if I had a daughter, you can bet for sure she’d be going for the vaccine as soon as medically appropriate. I’d gone religiously for Paps every year, and either at least one Pap missed cervical dysplasia, or I went straight from completely healthy to the beginning of invasive cancer inside a year. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/24 "2010-08-06T18:01:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > … What are the long-term effects of HPV other than cervical cancer, though? HPV also causes genital warts, cancer of the vagina, vulva, anus (recently in the news because that is what Farrah Fawcett died of), penis, and plays a role in many oral cancers (albeit smoking and drinking are larger factors there). Most vaccines hardly hurt at all. A pinch is it. Really. Sore muscle the next day maybe. This one hurts significantly more. Or so I’ve been told. … And the boys are wimpier than the girls and harder to catch when they faint. **Eva** , knowing that the direct benefit to a hypothetical son is significantly less, but that you’d be indirectly potentially protecting a future daughter-in-law, would you vaccinate a son, if you had one? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/25 "2010-08-06T18:14:28Z")
It doesn’t have to be given before the girl is sexually active; it just has to be given before she is exposed to the virus. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/26 "2010-08-06T18:57:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Most vaccines hardly hurt at all. A pinch is it. Really. Sore muscle the next day maybe. This one hurts significantly more. Or so I’ve been told. … And the boys are wimpier than the girls and harder to catch when they faint. Does the vaccine need to be given in the butt? If not, perhaps the patient should be sitting down when it’s given. I’ve had iron shots, and they hurt like hell, but I didn’t faint. Do these vaccinations hurt more or less than an iron shot? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/27 "2010-08-06T19:01:52Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **Eva** , knowing that the direct benefit to a hypothetical son is significantly less, but that you’d be indirectly potentially protecting a future daughter-in-law, would you vaccinate a son, if you had one? Probably, but it’s moot unless something happens to change my plans not to have children. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/28 "2010-08-06T19:11:54Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > It doesn’t have to be given before the girl is sexually active; it just has to be given before she is exposed to the virus. The catch is that it’s difficult to know if a man is infected with the virus, so giving it before first sexual activity is the best way to avoid the aforementioned horse/barn scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/29 "2010-08-06T19:53:07Z")
> [@](#): > > In America relatively few women currently die of cervical cancer - a few thousand each year. (Generally women are picked up by Pap smears early.) OK, but even if _every_ case of cervical cancer were detected early enough to be treated successfully, there’s still value to the vaccine. I’m not sure exactly what the standard treatment is for cervical cancer, but it’s got to be a lot more expensive than just three shots. Every cancer that’s prevented by the vaccine is a cancer that doesn’t need that expensive treatment. On the typical argument, “Oh, but my daughter’s a Good Girl, she’d never do anything like that!”: Sure, I’ll grant for the sake of argument that she is, but even Good Girls become sexually active eventually. She’s probably going to get married some day, and even if she wasn’t having sex before, she’s almost sure to have sex after marriage. You want her to get these protective shots some time before then, and what’s the harm in her getting the shots ten years before the wedding, rather than a month before? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/30 "2010-08-06T19:53:28Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Most vaccines hardly hurt at all. A pinch is it. Really. Sore muscle the next day maybe. This one hurts significantly more. Or so I’ve been told. … And the boys are wimpier than the girls and harder to catch when they faint. > > Does the vaccine need to be given in the butt? If not, perhaps the patient should be sitting down when it’s given. > > I’ve had iron shots, and they hurt like hell, but I didn’t faint. Do these vaccinations hurt more or less than an iron shot? Usually in the shoulder and always sitting down. The faint happens when they then get up. Official policy is to have them wait 15 minutes before getting up; I doubt many actually do that though. A minute or two, warned to sit back down if whoozy, and parents holding on as they get up. Seriously I am worried about the big football players- if any faints with shots they do, don’t ask me why, but none of my nurse are going to try to catch one of them! **Eva** , I appreciated that it was hypothetical. The question is where one draws the line of even safe interventions, like this one, vs real but marginally decreasing, benefits. I am not sure where the answer should be. My daughter (now 9) will get the shots as she goes into sixth grade. I am very comfortable with my belief that the benefit is worth it for her. My boys? (a 24 yo and a 19 yo that are both, I am aware, already sexually active, and a 15 yo who I am very sure is not yet.) I don’t know. And yes, the fact that it hurts and that it is three and that it is not cheap and will possibly be out of pocket … yeah those issues factor in. Yeah, the older ones can make up their own minds I guess. Adults now and all … ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/31 "2010-08-06T19:58:28Z")
> [@StrangeBird](#): > > I was recently reminded that, some time ago, the current leader of the opposition in Australia said he wouldn’t be rushing out to get his daughters vaccinated against cervical cancer (I believe he was the Minister for Health at the time, but I could be wrong). > > I don’t quite understand arguments against it (that is, most arguments I have heard seem unconvincing). Can someone explain in a clear and logical way why some people are opposed to most girls in high school being vaccinated? > > I am aware that some people argue against vaccinations in general. I’m more interested in arguments specific to vaccination against HPV. In the U.S. the arguments generally go: If you get your kid immunized, she will think it’s OK to have sex. Then she will become a slut. And then because she is a slut, she will go to hell. Or, what Der Trihs said. Yeah, we Amurricans are real advanced. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/32 "2010-08-06T20:05:33Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Most vaccines hardly hurt at all. A pinch is it. Really. Sore muscle the next day maybe. This one hurts significantly more. Or so I’ve been told. … And the boys are wimpier than the girls and harder to catch when they faint. > > Does the vaccine need to be given in the butt? If not, perhaps the patient should be sitting down when it’s given. > > I’ve had iron shots, and they hurt like hell, but I didn’t faint. Do these vaccinations hurt more or less than an iron shot? You should try the old style rabies shots. In the belly. Now THAT hurts. Been there, done that. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/33 "2010-08-06T20:27:24Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Most vaccines hardly hurt at all. A pinch is it. Really. Sore muscle the next day maybe. That may not be true for everybody. I have a phobia of needles. I cry and shake when I get a shot. That means I tend to tense up when I do get one, so it hurts me more than it might hurt some other person. ---
**Author:** ![StrangeBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e480ec/32.png) [@StrangeBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StrangeBird)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/34 "2010-08-06T21:46:19Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I support the use of the HPV vaccine in girls but there are some rational reasons to decline it. Thanks for this - it was exactly what I was interested in. > [@Lord\_Mondegreen](#): > > The current leader of the opposition in Australia has a number of reprehensible views. I know. In fact it was GetUp’s ad which consists of women quoting things he’d said which reminded me of his position on HPV vaccine. I assume his reasons fall into the “sex is bad” category, but I was curious if there were other reasons some people oppose the widespread use of the vaccine. I have actually been vaccinated (the Government provided free vaccination for women in their 20s for a while, not sure if they still do). It didn’t hurt me any more than any other vaccination (_way_ less than Hep B). ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/35 "2010-08-06T22:06:25Z")
I concur with EvaLuna. I haven’t had cervical cancer, but my mom has, about 3 years ago. The treatment was…not pleasant. As a result of the radiation treatment that basically microwaved her genital region, she continues (again, 3 years later) to have occasional explosive diharrea with only a few seconds’ warning. It’s gotten better, only once or twice a week instead of several times a day, but that’s still pretty horrible. Also, from various things she & my stepdad have alluded to, the treatment has completely killed their sex life and/or her sexual responsiveness. (Haven’t inquired too closely about that, not my business.) Oh, and it also kept her out of work for 2 1/2 years and completely drained their life savings and retirement fund - when they’re about to enter their sixties. I am beyond glad to still have my mom, but I never want to see my child go through that. Male or female, they’re getting those shots on their 13th birthday. Even if only a few women die of the disease, it’s still worth giving. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/36 "2010-08-06T23:19:26Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > I concur with EvaLuna. > > I haven’t had cervical cancer, but my mom has, about 3 years ago. The treatment was…not pleasant. As a result of the radiation treatment that basically microwaved her genital region, she continues (again, 3 years later) to have occasional explosive diharrea with only a few seconds’ warning. It’s gotten better, only once or twice a week instead of several times a day, but that’s still pretty horrible. Also, from various things she & my stepdad have alluded to, the treatment has completely killed their sex life and/or her sexual responsiveness. (Haven’t inquired too closely about that, not my business.) Well, I got fried the old-fashioned way (via [LEEP),](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop_electrical_excision_procedure) not radiation, and thankfully have had none of the quite unfortunate aftereffects you describe above (other than a few weeks of nasty discharge). But surgery is still not my idea of a good time, even outpatient and under local anasthetic. That, plus all the stress, the numerous followups, havign to declare on insurance documentation that I have had cancer - all that good stuff. If there’s a way to avoid that, I’m all for it. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/37 "2010-08-07T03:34:10Z")
I am neither a teenager nor a girl & I wouldn’t mind getting an HPV vacc–for SCIENCE! Maybe I can join a long-term study to see if it has any effect on prostate cancer rates. Any studies like that? ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/38 "2010-08-07T12:18:29Z")
My daughter (14 now) got the vaccine when she was 12. I would have had my son do the same, but the doc at the time, according to my ex-wife, wasn’t “comfortable” giving it to him. He is 12 now, and I may take another swing at that particular windmill. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/39 "2010-08-07T12:44:13Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > FWIW, most of the anti-HPV vaccine argument was that “condoms work just as well” so it isn’t necessary. At least, so I was told at the anti-vax message board from which I was banned for posting pro-vax propaganda. Except that, like herpes as well, condoms aren’t totally effective at preventing HPV spread. The virus is transmitted via exposed skin, not bodily fluids to mucus membranes solely. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380/40 "2010-08-07T12:51:10Z")
Which is an excellent argument. Unfortunately, excellent arguments have absolutely zero effect on those clowns. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arguments-against-hpv-vaccines/549380.md?page=3)