# Argumentum ad populum. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 16, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879 "2013-04-16T21:21:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/1 "2013-04-16T21:21:19Z")
Even though in many places such as Canada or Iran many ideas are illegal to discuss, USA has relatively wide freedom of expression. The First Amendment victory of Westboro Baptist Church is an example. Sometimes Argumentum ad populum is used to discredit unpopular opinions. In my opinion that argument has some power but it also has a shortcoming. In order to show that any idea is insane or unworthy of consideration, you have to show that \<1% of population supports that idea. If \>5% of population supports some idea, then it is a minority opinion worthy of consideration. After all 5% of American adults is 10 million people. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/2 "2013-04-16T21:43:00Z")
Lots of people think lots of dumb things. I don’t think it counts for much, if anything; it’s a logical fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/3 "2013-04-16T21:52:35Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Lots of people think lots of dumb things. I don’t think it counts for much, if anything; it’s a logical fallacy. As a libertarian, I believe that most opinions and value judgments can’t be shown right or wrong. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/4 "2013-04-16T22:04:07Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > In order to show that any idea is insane or unworthy of consideration, you have to show that \<1% of population supports that idea. If \>5% of population supports some idea, then it is a minority opinion worthy of consideration. After all 5% of American adults is 10 million people. What are you basing these numbers on? And why should the threshold be greater than one person? ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/5 "2013-04-16T22:06:43Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > What are you basing these numbers on? And why should the threshold be greater than one person? A few people can be crazy, but millions can’t be. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/6 "2013-04-16T22:10:50Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > Even though in many places such as Canada…many ideas are illegal to discuss Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/7 "2013-04-16T22:12:41Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > As a libertarian, I believe that most opinions and value judgments can’t be shown right or wrong. I’m not certain I understand the connection between your libertarian leanings and your beliefs about opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/8 "2013-04-16T22:15:00Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > A few people can be crazy, but millions can’t be. Why can’t they? Let’s put it this way. In 1865, only one person on planet Earth believed that light, magnetism and electricity were interrelated phenomenon that could be described by a few simple equations. That person was James Clerk Maxwell. He published a book about it called _A Dynamical Theory of the Electromagnetic Field_. When people read the book, they agreed with him. Pretty soon millions of people believed the same thing Maxwell did, because his equations so closely matched the physical evidence. Was Maxwell crazy when he was the only person on the planet who believed that his equations were a good description of the physical world? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/9 "2013-04-16T22:15:46Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > A few people can be crazy, but millions can’t be. I don’t understand any of this. Are you saying it’s ok to censor a few people because they might be crazy? And what does libertarianism have to do with this? And who says millions of people can’t be crazy? ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/10 "2013-04-16T22:16:29Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > A few people can be crazy, but millions can’t be. Sure they can. Do you think there’s some kind of an upper limit on how many crazy people there can be? Hell, there’s not a single human being alive that isn’t irrational and wrong about _something_. ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/11 "2013-04-16T22:30:58Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Was Maxwell crazy when he was the only person on the planet who believed that his equations were a good description of the physical world? A loner can be right or crazy. Millions can not be crazy. ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/12 "2013-04-16T22:32:34Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t understand any of this. Are you saying it’s ok to censor a few people because they might be crazy? Not right but possible. But if millions of people hold an opinion, the majority can not censor them. ---
**Author:** ![Rollo\_Tomasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Rollo\_Tomasi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rollo_Tomasi)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/13 "2013-04-16T22:32:37Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > A few people can be crazy, but millions can’t be. Before heliocentrism gained traction around the time of Coppernicus (although yes, I am aware that there were a few earlier detractors), it was widely believed that the sun revolved around the earth. Surely it’s not an exaggeration to say that millions of people believed in the geocentric model, and over the course of centuries, no less. Are you saying that it’s not possible that all those people were wrong (or “crazy,” as you prefer to deem them)? ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/14 "2013-04-16T22:34:22Z")
> [@colander](#): > > Sure they can. Do you think there’s some kind of an upper limit on how many crazy people there can be? Hell, there’s not a single human being alive that isn’t irrational and wrong about _something_. Less then 1% of population is legally insane. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/15 "2013-04-16T22:40:15Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > Less then 1% of population is legally insane. I think you are equivocating a bit. It’s obvious colander is referring to incorrect beliefs and crazy ideas. I don’t think colander is actually arguing that the majority of the population is legally. How popular a belief is has no bearing on whether its true or not. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/16 "2013-04-16T22:54:42Z")
> [@Rollo\_Tomasi](#): > > Before heliocentrism gained traction around the time of Coppernicus (although yes, I am aware that there were a few earlier detractors), it was widely believed that the sun revolved around the earth. Surely it’s not an exaggeration to say that millions of people believed in the geocentric model, and over the course of centuries, no less. > > Are you saying that it’s not possible that all those people were wrong (or “crazy,” as you prefer to deem them)? I don’t know what the OP is on about, or what this has to do with free speech or Canada, but: There’s a big difference between being wrong and being crazy. If millions of people are wrong about something, there’s some reason (good or bad) _why_ they believe what they do. “Millions of people believe something, therefore it must be true”? Of course not. “Millions of people believe something, therefore it’s worth hearing them out or knowing why they believe it”? Yeah, I’d go along with that. ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/17 "2013-04-16T22:58:39Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I don’t know what the OP is on about, or what this has to do with free speech or Canada, but: There’s a big difference between being wrong and being crazy. If millions of people are wrong about something, there’s some reason (good or bad) _why_ they believe what they do. > > “Millions of people believe something, therefore it must be true”? Of course not. “Millions of people believe something, therefore it’s worth hearing them out or knowing why they believe it”? Yeah, I’d go along with that. You have expressed my ideas better then I did. ---
**Author:** ![Rollo\_Tomasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Rollo\_Tomasi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rollo_Tomasi)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/18 "2013-04-16T23:04:24Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > “Millions of people believe something, therefore it must be true”? Of course not. If the OP agrees with this, then the he isn’t talking about argumentum ad populum. The basic idea behind the concept is that the masses are _right_, not just that it might be worth hearing them out, even if they’re wrong in the end. **CCitizen** , do you actually have a solid idea of what this phrase means? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/19 "2013-04-16T23:13:12Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > A loner can be right or crazy. Millions can not be crazy. Never heard of North Korea? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879/20 "2013-04-16T23:14:36Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > A few people can be crazy, but millions can’t be. [Proof that you’re wrong.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Idol#Television_ratings) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/argumentum-ad-populum/655879.md?page=2)