# Arizona is out of control **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 24, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171 "2010-04-24T01:17:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/181 "2010-04-26T02:56:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As a person of Hispanic origin, I repeat: I don’t know. It’s not necessary for the law to lay out specifics. For example, a Terry stop has reasonably specific guidelines, and they did not raise for legislation, did they? Yet is the whole structure of a Terry stop unworkable? No. **Bricker** , are you following the GD thread at all? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/182 "2010-04-26T04:02:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Maybe you should read the actual law before continuing to share your thoughts. Maybe you should show me where I’m wrong, since I gave you a cite. Look, I’m not a lawyer, so I don’t trust my assessment of legal language. Can you, if you wouldn’t mind, since you are presumably at a professional level when it comes to interpreting legal language, show me where the NYT is wrong? I don’t have a particular desire one way or the other, I’d like to know the truth and if you can show me that the reported facts are incorrect I’ll re-adjust my opinion on the law, kay? Now step fucking lively and bring us a cite pookums. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/183 "2010-04-26T04:04:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What section of the law says that? Article 8: section B ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/184 "2010-04-26T04:28:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If this law is grossly abused, at the very least I’ll come out in favor of modifying guidelines so that the abuses are curbed. If the nature of the abuses makes guidelines an unlikely cure – for example, if the abuses are the result of agencies ignoring guidelines already extant – then I’ll come out against it. Then I fully expect to see you coming out against this law less than 6 months after it takes effect. I’m telling you: the MCSO _already_ does stuff that would be considered abuse under this law. This is going to be a shopping spree at a candy store for them. Right now, they’re feeling exactly like Hugh Hefner felt when he heard the news that Viagra was invented. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/185 "2010-04-26T04:34:49Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And that’s a potential argument which I’d like to see expanded with facts and figures and whatnot. And it’s worth analyzing what would happen if this influx of labour was removed (or at least significantly reduced). Business closures? Higher prices? > > And presumably the huge influx had drastically negative effects on America that you can easily point out to us, right? > > This sounds dangerously close to a centralized planned economy, comrade, but no matter. I figure your better solution is just to make the process of entering the country easier with heavily-computerized border stations that can run instant background checks and medical staff that can run a basic disease check. Better to let them in under minimal control than just willy-nilly, wot? > > Fear of a dirty bomb can be used to rationalize a great many restrictions, though. I’m not sure how entrenched Arizona actually is in immigrant-run crime, which is why I’d like some statistics. > > I’ll accept for the sake of argument that these problems exist - I’m just asking for actual numbers. Do you (or anyone) know of a link to something written by an Arizona hospital administrator or school principal on the issue? > > I fail to see the distinction between not wanting to do a job and not wanting to do a job for low wages. Heck, there are any number of jobs I’d do for HIGH wages, but not otherwise. > > Numbers? > > By this reasoning, why not put maximums on corporate profits? You confuse me with your clerk. Most, if not all of things have been discussed on these boards. Gat off your ass and do a search if you’re that interested. And use Google for the others. Sheeze. If you want to discount them all, knock yourself out. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/186 "2010-04-26T05:02:45Z")
It’s okay, I get that you _feel_ the law is needed, even if you can’t prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/187 "2010-04-26T14:06:53Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I vote we give Arizona back to Mexico. Actually, I vote that we stand up and loudly applaud Arizona for so decisively pointing out the total failure of the U. S. Government, for whatever reasons, to adequately protect and defend our nation’s borders. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/188 "2010-04-26T14:55:59Z")
How does harrassing American citizens defend the borders? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/189 "2010-04-26T15:00:09Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It’s okay, I get that you _feel_ the law is needed, even if you can’t prove it. Glad you’re finally catching on, chum. You see, this is a debate board, where people share their opinions about things. You know, the way they (shudder) _feel_ about things. If you’re interested in things that can objectively be _proven_ to be right or wrong, you might want to spend your time in General Questions. But thank you for clearing up that you were only feigning interest in the subject of this thread. And revealing that even using the Search feature on this board is more work then you’re willing to subject yourself to. It’s cute that you think that your role in a thread like this in The Pit is not to counter other’s ideas and opinions with your own, but to have them do a term paper for you before you deign debate the positions offered. Even if with the understanding that you think that said opinion is merely that and would like more evidence to be _convinced_ that their position is valid. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/190 "2010-04-26T15:07:05Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How does harrassing American citizens defend the borders? You’re assuming that American citizens will be harassed. While there will no doubt be instances where American citizens might be asked for proof of citizenship. But how do you know that these people will view it as harassment? I wouldn’t. Just like after 9/11 when I was often singled out for closer scrutiny. I was GLAD that that the closer scrutiny was there. I din’t whine one bit. If I were in Arizona and questioned in that regard, I’d be GLAD that the efforts were being taken. I’d view it that my little minor inconvenience was part of the small cost necessary to to make my community/state/country a better place to live. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/191 "2010-04-26T15:09:37Z")
Would you be glad if you were detained by law enforcement officials for six hours because you couldn’t produce identification? Would you be glad if you were strip searched at an airport in the name of national security? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/192 "2010-04-26T15:25:08Z")
Well, magellan, it amused me, the same way asking you to prove that gay marriage will destroy American society amused me, and the same way needling that guy who still maintains Montreal is linked to the 9/11 attacks amuses me. Anyway, as a hypothetical, what if three million extra babies were born in the U.S.? They’d be flooding the hospitals, straining resources… and they don’t even speak English! And then a few years later, the schools would be drowning in them, and eventually they’d inundate the labour market, lowering wages and taking away the jobs of Americans! They’d be just like the illegals and, even worse, they’d need diaper changes! Close the vaginas! Build a wall! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/193 "2010-04-26T15:28:13Z")
What’s the false positive rate likely to be on this, anyway? I mean, for every illegal caught, how many legals will be detained? Would the nightmare scenario be a U.S. citizen whose wallet got stolen finding himself dumped on the Mexico side of the border? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/194 "2010-04-26T15:29:46Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What’s the false positive rate likely to be on this, anyway? I mean, for every illegal caught, how many legals will be detained? Would the nightmare scenario be a U.S. citizen whose wallet got stolen finding himself dumped on the Mexico side of the border? Hollywood is way ahead of you, hombre. [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092690/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092690/) Wait a second. I said hombre. And my ID is all the way in another room. I’m screwed. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/195 "2010-04-26T15:33:52Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You’re assuming that American citizens will be harassed. Of course they will. It would be impossible for them not to be. > [@](#): > > While there will no doubt be instances where American citizens might be asked for proof of citizenship. Something that will be demanded only for people with brown skin, and something that requires those people to carry documents that white people do not have to carry. > [@](#): > > But how do you know that these people will view it as harassment? Because they’re saying so loud and clear. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/196 "2010-04-26T15:34:44Z")
Yeah, yeah, I saw that movie. At the time, I vaguely felt that Cheech kinda deserved it, being too dumb to know who the President was. Of course, in the intervening years and through the wonders of the internet, I’ve learned that a great many Americans don’t know, either. I suppose this law could end up being the Mariel boatlift in reverse; an excuse to kick dumb people out of the country. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/197 "2010-04-26T15:55:42Z")
As long as you don’t look Canadian while you’re here, you’re safe. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/198 "2010-04-26T16:03:56Z")
Yeah, you’re right… some American might think you’d safely hosted the 9/11 perps. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/199 "2010-04-26T16:07:32Z")
Poor, clueless wanker. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/200 "2010-04-26T16:15:34Z")
It’s determined belief without (and, entirely possibly, in spite of) evidence that is likely to lead this law to cause more problems than it solves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171.md?page=11)