# Arizona is out of control **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 24, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171 "2010-04-24T01:17:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/241 "2010-04-26T20:50:57Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Funny. > > His mother dresses him _ **funny** _. His mother might dd a perfectly good job dressing him. Just because he’s a brainless trog does not mean that it’s his mother’s fault. -Joe (Sure, her meth habit probably didn’t help, but there’s no absolute proof that pregnant meth use leads to bigotry) ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/242 "2010-04-27T14:54:54Z")
If we can’t trust these guys to use judgement when asking for ID should we allow them to be armed? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/243 "2010-04-27T15:20:33Z")
[AZ State Capitol smeared with refried-bean swastikas.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDusSbk8nF8&playnext_from=TL&videos=ImAhi5VdKrw) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/244 "2010-04-27T15:33:22Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [AZ State Capitol smeared with refried-bean swastikas.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDusSbk8nF8&playnext_from=TL&videos=ImAhi5VdKrw) I don’t get it - is that a protest against the law, or a threat against Mexicans, or what? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/245 "2010-04-27T15:45:29Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You confuse me with your clerk. Most, if not all of things have been discussed on these boards. Gat off your ass and do a search if you’re that interested. And use Google for the others. Sheeze. If you want to discount them all, knock yourself out. Yeah, I’ve seen all that glurge, too. **One question:** Please give specific information on the hospitals that were closed down because of all the “illegals”? Just name a couple of them. And supply links, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/246 "2010-04-27T16:16:41Z")
Actually, the “how does illegal immigration affect you personally” thread in GD is proving more interesting than anything I expect magellan to say on the issue. Or ever, really. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/247 "2010-04-27T17:19:46Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Do I think it _can_ be abused and people be harassed. Yes. And that’s the very reason I think it will not. They want this to succeed, so they will be very careful. and > [@magellan01](#): > > And that’s fine. In fact, just raising the issue probably ensures that it will not be abused and people, objectively, be harassed. Let me see if i understand your reasoning correctly here. The law was written in such a way that it can be easily abused, and this, in itself, is sufficient proof to convince you that it will not be abused. And the very fact that people are worried about abuse and harassment under this law, and are raising the issue, is again, for you, sufficient evidence that this abuse and harassment will not happen. I guess, by that logic, your concerns that allowing gay marriage might dilute or somehow devalue traditional heterosexual marriage are, in and of themselves, sufficient evidence that this would not happen. After all, the people advocating for gay marriage “want this to succeed.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/248 "2010-04-27T19:10:17Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I don’t get it - is that a protest against the law, or a threat against Mexicans, or what? [It really happened.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/26/refried-beans-swastika-arizona_n_552201.html) Who did it is not clear. I would guess, protestors against the new law. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/249 "2010-04-27T19:12:34Z")
Oh, I know it _happened_, just the message and the medium were ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/250 "2010-04-27T19:29:23Z")
The original plan was to spell out Niemöller’s “First They Came…” using pinto beans, but they ran out of beans. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/251 "2010-04-27T23:45:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [It really happened.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/26/refried-beans-swastika-arizona_n_552201.html) Who did it is not clear. I would guess, protestors against the new law. You can’t draw any conclusions about this kind of stuff. It could have been protesters, it could have been someone who wanted to make the protesters look bad, it could have been students at the local academy of art doing some kind of freelance performance piece, it could have been someone with a lot of leftover refried beans and not much to do on a Monday, etc. The media are too easy to game. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/252 "2010-04-28T03:15:29Z")
[Rachel Maddow says the bill was drafted by a white supremacist group.](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/36791568#36791568) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/253 "2010-04-29T16:26:34Z")
In 2008 ,there was an investigation of voter suppression in Arizona. The voting rolls had been purged of Hispanic names. The Feds received over 100, 000 complaints. In charge of the action was Jan Brewer. One of every 3 voters applications in Phoenix had been denied. The Feds explained voting illegally bis a felony ,please direct them to cases to prosecute. Zero cases were turned over to the Feds. A reporter who pushed them got one. It was a 100 year old woman who could not get a copy of her birth certificate because it did not exist. I sleep better knowing they stopped her. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/254 "2010-04-29T16:29:02Z")
Everybody just relax. Shakira is on the case. [http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2010/04/29/shakira-in-arizona-to-protest-new-immigration-law/](http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2010/04/29/shakira-in-arizona-to-protest-new-immigration-law/) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/255 "2010-04-29T16:49:40Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > In 2008 ,there was an investigation of voter suppression in Arizona. The voting rolls had been purged of Hispanic names. The Feds received over 100, 000 complaints. In charge of the action was Jan Brewer. One of every 3 voters applications in Phoenix had been denied. The Feds explained voting illegally bis a felony ,please direct them to cases to prosecute. Zero cases were turned over to the Feds. A reporter who pushed them got one. It was a 100 year old woman who could not get a copy of her birth certificate because it did not exist. I sleep better knowing they stopped her. And of the 100,000 complaints, how many were justified? That is, how many names were stricken from the rolls in error? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/256 "2010-04-29T17:27:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And of the 100,000 complaints, how many were justified? That is, how many names were stricken from the rolls in error? > **[Behind the Arizona Immigration Law - Greg Palast](https://www.gregpalast.com/behind-the-arizona-immigration-lawgop-game-to-swipe-the-november-election/)** > > Our investigation in Arizona discovered the real intent of the show-me-your-papers law > [@](#): > > were these disenfranchised voters the criminal, non-citizens Brewer tagged them, or just not-quite-white voters given the José Crow treatment, entrapped in document-chase trickery? > > The answer was provided by a federal prosecutor who was sent on a crazy hunt all over the Western mesas looking for these illegal voters. “We took over 100 complaints, we investigated for almost 2 years, I didn’t find one prosecutable voter fraud case.” > > This prosecutor, David Iglesias, is a prosecutor no more. When he refused to fabricate charges of illegal voting among immigrants, his firing was personally ordered by the President of the United States, George W. Bush, under orders from his boss, Karl Rove. 100 is a large enough sample to suggest that the percentage of justified strikings was below 1%. So the purge was _not_ very effective at reducing actual voter fraud at the polls. OTOH, if 99% of the strikeouts were legally _un_justified, and most hispanics vote for democrats, then this constituted a highly succesful voter suppression campaign. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/257 "2010-04-29T17:38:04Z")
You’re wasting your time with **Bricker** trying to talk about anything but hypertechnicalities of the written law. He isn’t interested in, and doesn’t even seem to recognize, anything else. Remember his motivation for being on this board, too. He wants to _win_, nothing else. So, just let him feel like he’s won. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/258 "2010-04-29T17:48:36Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You’re wasting your time with **Bricker** trying to talk about anything but hypertechnicalities of the written law. He isn’t interested in, and doesn’t even seem to recognize, anything else. > > Remember his motivation for being on this board, too. He wants to _win_, nothing else. So, just let him feel like he’s won. It’s not even technicalities, he’ll misconstrue something so that he appears to win. He’d rather seem right than be right. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/259 "2010-04-29T17:59:02Z")
I was considering law school in the later 60’s. You know, work within the system for change, stand up for the powerless, that sort of thing. My mother threw her self on the floor and beseeched me to consider the family honor, and our proud peckerwood heritage. “Couldn’t you just be content with something more honorable, like a drug-addled hippy?” Ahhh, the road not taken… ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2010, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/260 "2010-04-30T02:23:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If this law is grossly abused, at the very least I’ll come out in favor of modifying guidelines so that the abuses are curbed. If the nature of the abuses makes guidelines an unlikely cure – for example, if the abuses are the result of agencies ignoring guidelines already extant – then I’ll come out against it. This law is ripe for abuse. [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/29/arizona-immigration-lawsuit\_n\_557311.html](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/29/arizona-immigration-lawsuit_n_557311.html) The first suit is a cop who does not want to be a part of it. It will be a huge headache. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171.md?page=14)