# Arizona is out of control **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 24, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171 "2010-04-24T01:17:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/521 "2010-05-19T17:06:46Z")
All he “laid out” is his rationalization for his own bigotry, and a clarion call for “white Americans” to emulate him. He offers no justification for this law or his own beliefs, just a pathetic excuse to support it. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/522 "2010-05-19T17:09:49Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > His “reasoning” is _based on_ racism, fool. I know you don’t realize this, but you are making my point. Just cry RACISM! That way you’re saved having to try to counter not only his point of view, but his reasoning. Thanks for the assist. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/523 "2010-05-19T17:11:59Z")
There was no reasoning to counter. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/524 "2010-05-19T17:16:59Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I know you don’t realize this, but you are making my point. Just cry RACISM! That way you’re saved having to try to counter not only his point of view, but his reasoning. > > Thanks for the assist. Then help us by giving us your version, in your own words, of what else his “reasoning” is based on. A sexual bigot defending a racial bigot … :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/525 "2010-05-19T17:23:55Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > All he “laid out” is his rationalization for his own bigotry, and a clarion call for “white Americans” to emulate him. He offers no justification for this law or his own beliefs, just a pathetic excuse to support it. He’s claiming that people prefer to be around their own races. For me it’s more of a similar culture thing, but if you look around there’s a lot to support his assertion. Is this supported by any sociological research? I don’t know. But if you look around into neighborhoods, even school lunchrooms, there does seem to be a tendency for people to prefer to hang with their own. I’d be curious to know the degree to which this tendency extends to the military. My guess is that it’s not as prevalent there, which would indicate that even if there is some deeply ingrained comfort we find from associating with similar people, it can be overwritten. Which mirrors my own experience. And I don’t think Lonesome would even disagree with that. The question is, is there a default natural tendency for us prefer to be around those of the same race. But since you seem to think that he is not only wrong, but absurdly wrong, you must have a ton of facts at your fingertips. Or you must have at least thought this through quite a bit on your own. In which case, would you mind sharing your thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/526 "2010-05-19T17:26:34Z")
He’s saying not only that it’s real, but that it’s _proper_. > [@](#): > > If it’s all right for Hispanics to want America to be more brown, why should it be wrong for Anglos to want America to be more white? Explain _that_ as something other than rationalizing racism, bigot. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/527 "2010-05-19T17:34:05Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Then help us by giving us your version, in your own words, of what else his “reasoning” is based on. > > A sexual bigot defending a racial bigot … :rolleyes: And you keep on helping. THANKS! You’re a peach. But let me ask you this: why is it incumbent upon me to dissect his thinking when I’ve displayed neither animus or passion for his point of view, while you who thinks it so hateful and wants to shut him up by your charges of racism, that you needn’t explain anything? That’s rather odd, I think. Now, I realize that your profound partisanship in these matters is an obstacle. That and your considerably limited intellect. But surely you should give it a go at least, no? I mean, it is a debate board. And while it is the Pit, people often choose to do more than simply sling pooh and hurl invective. You’ve done it yourself from time to time. Why not take this opportunity to explain to him why his conclusion is wrong, or his premises are faulty? My guess is that it is because you can’t. It feels wrong to you, you want it to be wrong, but you can’t demonstrate that it is or why. So, therefore you seek to be saved by cries of, “RACIST!” Nope. It’s not working. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/528 "2010-05-19T17:37:58Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But let me ask you this: why is it incumbent upon me to dissect his thinking Because you’re the one trying desperately to make a point about it. If you can’t, which is obviously the case here as it generally is, then you need to reconsider it. Or consider it for the first time, more accurately. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/529 "2010-05-19T17:38:03Z")
Magellan01 is perfectly fine with acting exactly like a bigot, but for some bizarre reason he can not tolerate the term as applied to himself. I expect it’ll be much the same with LonesomePolecat and “racist” when he returns. It’s really weird that, for a lot of people, all the last several decades of social progress have accomplished is making _the word “racist” itself_ horrible–not the philosophy or behavior behind it. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/530 "2010-05-19T17:40:26Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > He’s saying not only that it’s real, but that it’s _proper_. > > Explain _that_ as something other than rationalizing racism, bigot. My, you are just so intent in helping prove my point here. But to answer your question, if something is hardwired in us, can that really be defined as racism, as we use the term? If there is an innate tendency for us to want to associate with those of your own race, can anyone fairly be criticized for it? But more directly to his point, why is it okay for Hispanics to show solidarity and not whites? Why is La Raza not decried by you for being a horrible, disgusting, RACIST organization? Let’s leave it there for now… Just three questions. I look forward to your reasoned responses. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/531 "2010-05-19T17:51:30Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And you keep on helping. THANKS! You’re a peach. > > But let me ask you this: why is it incumbent upon me to dissect his thinking when I’ve displayed neither animus or passion for his point of view, while you who thinks it so hateful and wants to shut him up by your charges of racism, that you needn’t explain anything? > > That’s rather odd, I think. > > Now, I realize that your profound partisanship in these matters is an obstacle. That and your considerably limited intellect. But surely you should give it a go at least, no? I mean, it is a debate board. And while it is the Pit, people often choose to do more than simply sling pooh and hurl invective. You’ve done it yourself from time to time. Why not take this opportunity to explain to him why his conclusion is wrong, or his premises are faulty? > > My guess is that it is because you can’t. It feels wrong to you, you want it to be wrong, but you can’t demonstrate that it is or why. So, therefore you seek to be saved by cries of, “RACIST!” > > Nope. It’s not working. Look, dumbfuck: > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Why shouldn’t we favor whites who speak English? The obvious implication here being that we should “favor” whites who speak English. Racially divisive. Racially favoritist. Racist. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > why should it be wrong for Anglos to want America to be more white? Racially favoritist. Promoting the propagation of the white race over others. Racist. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > It is entirely natural to prefer people of your own race and culture over others. Why is it wrong for white Americans to do so? Racially favoritist. Possibly (even probably) has some truth to it. Doesn’t make it less racist. Only ad populum arguments can support this. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Where do you get this weird idea that whites should just quietly step aside and cede power and land to non-whites? Xenophobic. Racially divisive. Assumptive. Racially confrontational. Clear racial inferiority complex. Racist. What’s scarier than LonesomePolecat saying all this stuff is that you _don’t understand what’s wrong with it_. (I’m hoping he acts like a man and proudly owns up to how racist it is, but I’m not holding my breath.) It reminds me of when we studied _Birth of a Nation_ in college. The professor wasn’t disturbed by the movie. He was disturbed that more than half the class _didn’t see what was racist about it._ ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/532 "2010-05-19T17:51:44Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Nope. It’s not working. The facts never work on the willfully ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/533 "2010-05-19T17:57:29Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > if something is hardwired in us Cite that it is? > [@](#): > > can that really be defined as racism, as we use the term? IF it is, but we can understand it and overcome it, but are too morally lazy to, yes. Same thing with your homophobia. > [@](#): > > Why is La Raza not decried by you for being a horrible, disgusting, RACIST organization? Relevance of La Raza to the Arizona law? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/534 "2010-05-19T17:58:38Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > if something is hardwired in us, can that really be defined as racism, as we use the term? If there is an innate tendency for us to want to associate with those of your own race, can anyone fairly be criticized for it? Yes. A fair comparison here would be greed. Or how 'bout the desire by most men to have sex with most women at most times. That one’s pretty hardwired. > [@magellan01](#): > > But more directly to his point, why is it okay for Hispanics to show solidarity and not whites? > > Why is La Raza not decried by you for being a horrible, disgusting, RACIST organization? It’s way too much to ask of your simple ass to in any way comprehend the different social dynamic between a minority(/less socially powerful) and a majority(/more socially powerful) group, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/535 "2010-05-19T17:59:45Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Magellan01 is perfectly fine with acting exactly like a bigot, but for some bizarre reason he can not tolerate the term as applied to himself. I expect it’ll be much the same with LonesomePolecat and “racist” when he returns. > > It’s really weird that, for a lot of people, all the last several decades of social progress have accomplished is making _the word “racist” itself_ horrible–not the philosophy or behavior behind it. Feel free to make yourself useful by asking any of the questions I’ve asked. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/536 "2010-05-19T18:20:55Z")
I’m curious about something. All these “terrible brown people who speak Spanish”… Arern’t/weren’t they the original owners of Arizona/New Mexico/Texas/California/Nevada and all that stuff? Weren’t they there first? Aren’t they the ones we bought/borrowed/took all that land from? So who has the better right to stay right where they are? Personally I don’t like the idea that some Buford T Justice wannabe can roust people and demand prove of ANYTHING, without a warrant or pretty strong probable cause. It’s just a license to fuck with people. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/537 "2010-05-19T18:25:36Z")
I will get to these comments later. The few worthy of a response at least. In the meantime, I’ll just ask: wasn’t there a thread not too long ago about the fact that most people prefer mates/date/marry within their own race. Are people who do so racist? If large numbers of a given race do so, does that make the entire group racist? Later, kids. Just one more thing: Elvis, would you PLEASE go take a fucking logic course. Your inability to stay on track and follow through on one logical thread is so poor that I wonder how you can cross the street. Ideally, a symbolic logic course, for it’s purity. But even studying a Miller’s Analogies would be helpful. Okay, two. Cisco, you’re wrong about _ad populum_ being the defense. It wouldn’t because a majority says so, it would be because we are hard-wired to have such a preference. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/538 "2010-05-19T18:34:47Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I will get to these comments later. The few worthy of a response at least. IOW the few to which you think you can eventually come up with an answer that seems “logical” to a bigot, never mind that you can’t right now. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/539 "2010-05-19T18:36:31Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I will get to these comments later. The few worthy of a response at least. In the meantime, I’ll just ask: wasn’t there a thread not too long ago about the fact that most people prefer mates/date/marry within their own race. Are people who do so racist? If large numbers of a given race do so, does that make the entire group racist? You’re not seriously positing an equivalence between people who prefer to date within their race and a law designed to target and harass people of a specific ethnicity are you? > [@magellan01](#): > > Just one more thing: Elvis, would you PLEASE go take a fucking logic course. Your inability to stay on track and follow through on one logical thread is so poor that I wonder how you can cross the street. Ideally, a symbolic logic course, for it’s purity. But even studying a Miller’s Analogies would be helpful. Hi Pot. ---
**Author:** ![campp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@campp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/campp)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171/540 "2010-05-19T18:41:36Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I’m curious about something. > > All these “terrible brown people who speak Spanish”… > > Arern’t/weren’t they the original owners of Arizona/New Mexico/Texas/California/Nevada and all that stuff? Weren’t they there first? Aren’t they the ones we bought/borrowed/took all that land from? So who has the better right to stay right where they are? Oh brother. Read much history? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-is-out-of-control/537171.md?page=28)