# Arizona official may keep Obama off the ballot **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 19, 2012, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398 "2012-05-19T05:06:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/81 "2012-05-23T12:49:37Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Would this be the same body that okayed Japanese Concentration camps during WWII? The same body that okayed rounding up innocent people and holding them prisoner because of their race? > > ITT: **Bricker** supports bigoted ethnic cleansing, or demonstrates spineless hypocrisy. > > Either bigoted ethnic cleansing is okay, or the Supreme Court is capable of being wrong. > > Cite: United States v. Thind (Ethnic cleansing Americans of Japanese decent) > > [10 Racist Supreme Court Rulings in U.S. History](http://civilliberty.about.com/od/raceequalopportunity/tp/supreme_racism.htm) The Supreme Court is not in the business of deciding right and wrong. They never supported the rightness of Japanese concentratrion camps, or later decried the wrongness of them. That seems to be a serial problem with you and other people that look to the courts as a last resort philosopher king – they, the wise uber leaders, here to correct the mistakes our stupid legislature makes. That’s not their role. Their role is to pass on the interpretation of federal statutory and constitutional law. Since they are the final authority for what the law means, they’re not wrong. They are certainly capable of changing the existing binding interpretations of the law to something new. In the case of whether the cost of a birth certificate is a poll tax, it isn’t. That’s what the law says, and that’s what I say. You say something different, but no one cares, because your view doesn’t reflect the reality that voter ID measures like Indiana’s are legal, permitted, and not poll taxes. You may also have the opinion that hydrogen and oxygen combine to form oak. But, again, the reality is that they don’t. So you’re welcome to continue insisting that they do, but as long as they actually create water, no one cares. Or, I suppose, hydrogen peroxide. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/82 "2012-05-23T13:10:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The Supreme Court is not in the business of deciding right and wrong. They never supported the rightness of Japanese concentratrion camps, or later decried the wrongness of them. > > That seems to be a serial problem with you and other people that look to the courts as a last resort philosopher king – they, the wise uber leaders, here to correct the mistakes our stupid legislature makes. > > That’s not their role. > > Their role is to pass on the interpretation of federal statutory and constitutional law. Since they are the final authority for what the law means, they’re not wrong. They are certainly capable of changing the existing binding interpretations of the law to something new. To the extent that the executive orders in question required Japanese to be rounded up but not Germans or Italians, they were certainly wrong in Korematsu. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/83 "2012-05-23T19:06:51Z")
[“I consider the matter closed,” says Bennett.](http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/05/ken_bennett_obama_birth_verification_arizona.php) Weird how these things keep fizzling out. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/84 "2012-05-23T19:23:37Z")
I like that Hawaii’s Dept of Health is situated on Punchbowl St. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/85 "2012-05-23T19:33:43Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [“I consider the matter closed,” says Bennett.](http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/05/ken_bennett_obama_birth_verification_arizona.php) Weird how these things keep fizzling out. I agree with the upthread sentiments that this was never a birther attack per se, but rather an indication that Bennet is considering a run for higher elected office. Publicity stunt at the expense of democracy to win a democratic election. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/86 "2012-05-23T19:52:41Z")
I think I’m now a Hawaiian fanboy. They jerk Bennet around for two months demanding proof of his ID, proof that he was Secretary of State of Arizona, and that the Secretary of State was responsible for determining who was on the ballot. The day after he publicly apologizes for embarrassing Arizona they “coincidentally” decide he’s met their requests for information and send him the one page confirmation he asked for? Awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/87 "2012-05-23T20:41:14Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > I agree with the upthread sentiments that this was never a birther attack per se, but rather an indication that Bennet is considering a run for higher elected office. Publicity stunt at the expense of democracy to win a democratic election. I don’t particularly have a problem with Bennett requesting confirmation of Obama’s birth from Hawaii. He’s a public official responding to the will of the citizens of his state. Even if they’re crazy, you don’t tell the people who pay your salary to go pound sand. Rather than get caught up in three years’ worth of bullshit on blogs and web pages, He went through official channels to the source of the information he needed. I think that while he was at it, he should have made the same effort to verify Romney’s eligibility, and any third-party candidates who are trying to get on the Arizona ballot. As for Bennett running for a higher office in the future, I think this hurts him more than it helps. The birthers liked him while he was listening to them, but in the end he is putting Obama on the ballot. If they haven’t believed the hundreds of people who have already told them Obama was born in Hawaii, they won’t believe it coming from Bennett, either. They’ll hate him for knuckling under, and will vote for whoever is indulging their fantasies at the time. > [@Gorsnak](#): > > I like that Hawaii’s Dept of Health is situated on Punchbowl St. It’s not as festive as it sounds. It’s probably a reference to Punchbowl Crater, site of the [National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Memorial_Cemetery_of_the_Pacific). ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/88 "2012-05-23T20:57:45Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I don’t particularly have a problem with Bennett requesting confirmation of Obama’s birth from Hawaii. He’s a public official responding to the will of the citizens of his state. Even if they’re crazy, you don’t tell the people who pay your salary to go pound sand. Rather than get caught up in three years’ worth of bullshit on blogs and web pages, He went through official channels to the source of the information he needed. It was stupid. First, Bennett says he recieved 1200 emails questioning Obama’s birth certificate. Arizona has a population of of about 6.5 million. He can tell less than 2% of the population to go pound sand. I sincerely doubt 1200 emails is all it takes to get action for you pet cause from Arizona. Second, instead of telling them to pound sand he could have directed them to the already publicly available copies along with the official statements by the State of Hawaii. He didn’t need to wade through anything to find this information and he certainly didn’t need a one page paper faxed to him telling him what everyone already knew. Besides, the Birthers who sent those 1200 emails certainly aren’t going to think it actually proved anything anyway. When they send another 1200 emails about Hawaii lying, then what? Bennett doesn’t get a “just doing due diligence” defense when the question has been repeatedly answered over the last four years. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/89 "2012-05-23T22:11:49Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > Bennett doesn’t get a “just doing due diligence” defense when the question has been repeatedly answered over the last four years. It has been repeatedly answered over the last four years, but not all the answers are the same. Copies posted on web pages, or printed in newspapers, are only as good as the reputation of the publisher. They don’t carry any legal authority. Ultimately, there is one place in the world that can give the definitive answer. Bennett, in his official role with the state of Arizona, was entitled to receive that information, he satisfied their requirements, and got the confirmation he asked for. I think that is due diligence. There’s plenty about this that is troublesome, or just fucking insane. If those 1,200 people weren’t already convinced, this is probably not going to change their minds. I don’t think the chief election official in a state should also be co-chair of Romney’s campaign committee in that state. (Or Obama’s, if there’s any state where that’s the case.) I don’t like that he appears to have done this for one candidate, but not others. Lots of the birther nonsense came about when people with no legal standing tried to question Obama’s birth, and the state of Hawaii rightly told them to go away. Here’s one of the few people who does have standing, and Hawaii answered. I don’t have a problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/90 "2012-05-23T22:19:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The Supreme Court is not in the business of deciding right and wrong. They never supported the rightness of Japanese concentratrion camps, or later decried the wrongness of them. > > That seems to be a serial problem with you and other people that look to the courts as a last resort philosopher king – they, the wise uber leaders, here to correct the mistakes our stupid legislature makes. > > That’s not their role. > > Their role is to pass on the interpretation of federal statutory and constitutional law. Since they are the final authority for what the law means, they’re not wrong. They are certainly capable of changing the existing binding interpretations of the law to something new. > > In the case of whether the cost of a birth certificate is a poll tax, it isn’t. That’s what the law says, and that’s what I say. > > You say something different, but no one cares, because your view doesn’t reflect the reality that voter ID measures like Indiana’s are legal, permitted, and not poll taxes. > > You may also have the opinion that hydrogen and oxygen combine to form oak. But, again, the reality is that they don’t. So you’re welcome to continue insisting that they do, but as long as they actually create water, no one cares. > > Or, I suppose, hydrogen peroxide. Since you are obviously having trouble understanding the bloody obvious, I will make this simple. You are trying to claim a fee some folks must pay to the government to vote isn’t a poll tax, because so and so says. Well if one boxer knees the other in the goody bag, that’s a below the belt foul no matter what the ref says. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/91 "2012-05-23T23:04:38Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > It was stupid. First, Bennett says he recieved 1200 emails questioning Obama’s birth certificate. Arizona has a population of of about 6.5 million. He can tell less than 2% of the population to go pound sand. I sincerely doubt 1200 emails is all it takes to get action for you pet cause from Arizona. That should be “less than 0.02% of the population.” 2% of the population would be 130,000 And yes, you should not tell anyone to go pound sand if you’re a politician. You should know when to ignore the tiny proportion of nutters though, or you risk looking like a nutter yourself. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/92 "2012-05-23T23:05:09Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Since you are obviously having trouble understanding the bloody obvious, I will make this simple. > > You are trying to claim a fee some folks must pay to the government to vote isn’t a poll tax, because so and so says. Well if one boxer knees the other in the goody bag, that’s a below the belt foul no matter what the ref says. This. And, again, [this.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=489075) ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/93 "2012-05-23T23:09:56Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > It has been repeatedly answered over the last four years, but not all the answers are the same. Copies posted on web pages, or printed in newspapers, are only as good as the reputation of the publisher. They don’t carry any legal authority. Ultimately, there is one place in the world that can give the definitive answer. Bennett, in his official role with the state of Arizona, was entitled to receive that information, he satisfied their requirements, and got the confirmation he asked for. I think that is due diligence. Please explain why Dr. Chiyome Fukino’s (then director of the Hawaii State Department of Health) certifications back in October of 2008 or again in July of 2009 do not count as a definitive answer and require a later follow up by Bennett. Bonus points if you can explain why _this_ answer from the Hawaii State Department of Health is more official than the one given _by the exact same department_ three years ago. Asking for old information readily accessible to anyone who cares is not due diligence. It’s one moron pandering to other morons. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/94 "2012-05-23T23:10:40Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > I think I’m now a Hawaiian fanboy. > > They jerk Bennet around for two months demanding proof of his ID, proof that he was Secretary of State of Arizona, and that the Secretary of State was responsible for determining who was on the ballot. The day after he publicly apologizes for embarrassing Arizona they “coincidentally” decide he’s met their requests for information and send him the one page confirmation he asked for? > > Awesome. Ha! They should have made Bennet produce his actual birth certificate. Then quibbled about whether or not it was proper. Then made him get a notorized copy of it. Then question the bonafides of the notary. Then leak it to the press that it was only a copy. Then lose his paperwork and make him do it all again. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/95 "2012-05-23T23:41:55Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Copies posted on web pages, or printed in newspapers, are only as good as the reputation of the publisher. In this case, they are as good as the reputations of **all** publishers. Who in the news media however broadly defined, print or TV or Intertube, hasn’t published them at some point?! ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/96 "2012-05-24T01:16:35Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > That should be “less than 0.02% of the population.” 2% of the population would be 130,000 > > And yes, you should not tell anyone to go pound sand if you’re a politician. You should know when to ignore the tiny proportion of nutters though, or you risk looking like a nutter yourself. No, that’s over 90% of the population. Source: “Basic Statistics,” by Sen. Jon Kyd (R-AZ). ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/97 "2012-05-24T03:42:26Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > It was stupid. First, Bennett says he recieved 1200 emails questioning Obama’s birth certificate. Arizona has a population of of about 6.5 million. He can tell less than 2% of the population to go pound sand. I sincerely doubt 1200 emails is all it takes to get action for you pet cause from Arizona. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > That should be “less than 0.02% of the population.” 2% of the population would be 130,000 And also, these both assume that 1,200 different people sent one email each. Most cranks aren’t satisfied with sending one letter; it seems safe to assume that at least some birthers sent several emails each, and that the total number of birthers in Arizona might be far less than 1,200. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/98 "2012-05-24T03:49:33Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > And also, these both assume that 1,200 different people sent one email each. Most cranks aren’t satisfied with sending one letter; it seems safe to assume that at least some birthers sent several emails each, and that the total number of birthers in Arizona might be far less than 1,200. Or they’re like cockroaches- for every one that sent an e-mail, there’s a hundred who couldn’t get the computer in the mailbox. ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/99 "2012-05-24T09:40:16Z")
1200 emails? please. Probably only took ONE. I think Mark Evanier’s [explanation from POVOnline \*](http://www.newsfromme.com/)puts it best: > [@](#): > > I think a lot of the illogical things we hear candidates say are said because one specific donor with a lot of money wanted them said. Yes, they may alienate certain potential voters but it’s a lot [sic] time to Election Day. There’s plenty of time for those voters to forget or to whipped up against the opposition. Right now, the idea is to get the money. > > Bennett wants to run for governor. So my guess is he met some wealthy Arizona tycoon who leans heavily to the right on account of that’s the side where he carries his wallet. The guy is Birther Loco and he said to Bennett, “I might be inclined to support you with some serious money if you were the kind of guy who’d make an effort to get that Kenyan Socialist’s name off the Arizona ballot.” (There’s talk Obama may be able to carry the state and that must drive some folks there mad.) > > Bennett knows there’s no way to deny Obama a slot on the ballot but the Rich Birther doesn’t want to admit that. So Bennett does what he does and now he can to that potential donor and say, “Well, I tried. Now, about that campaign contribution…” It’s gotta be something like that. - link goes to the general newsfromME webpage. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398/100 "2012-05-24T15:50:17Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > I think I’m now a Hawaiian fanboy. > > They jerk Bennet around for two months demanding proof of his ID, proof that he was Secretary of State of Arizona, and that the Secretary of State was responsible for determining who was on the ballot. The day after he publicly apologizes for embarrassing Arizona they “coincidentally” decide he’s met their requests for information and send him the one page confirmation he asked for? > > Awesome. I’m seeing a little bit of similarity between this and Obama’s handling of the Trump “investigation.” Maybe that’s where he gets it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-official-may-keep-obama-off-the-ballot/622398.md?page=6)