# Arizona to use Zyklon B to kill prisoners **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 3, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561 "2021-06-03T19:11:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/21 "2021-06-03T22:45:00Z")
" While methods of execution have changed over the years, “[t]his Court has never invalidated a State’s chosen procedure for carrying out a sentence of death as the infliction of cruel and unusual punishment.” _Id.,_ at 48. In _Wilkerson_ v. _Utah_ , 99 U. S. 130 –135 (1879), the Court upheld a sentence of death by firing squad. In _In re Kemmler_ , _supra_ , at 447–449, the Court rejected a challenge to the use of the electric chair. And the Court did not retreat from that holding even when presented with a case in which a State’s initial attempt to execute a pris-oner by electrocution was unsuccessful. _Louisiana ex rel. Francis_ v. _Resweber_ , 329 U. S. 459 –464 (1947) (plurality opinion). Most recently, in _Baze_ , _supra_ , seven Justices agreed that the three-drug protocol just discussed does not violate the Eighth Amendment. " Our decisions in this area have been animated in part by the recognition that because it is settled that capital punishment is constitutional, “[i]t necessarily follows that there must be a [constitutional] means of carrying it out.” _Id.,_ at 47. And because some risk of pain is inherent in any method of execution, we have held that the Constitution does not require the avoidance of all risk of pain. _Ibid._ After all, while most humans wish to die a painless death, many do not have that good fortune. Holding that the Eighth Amendment demands the elimination of essentially all risk of pain would effectively outlaw the death penalty altogether." Glossip v. Gross ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/22 "2021-06-03T23:18:47Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I’m sure that the Nazis ate breakfast in the morning, but just because I do that doesn’t make me a Nazi. Everyone eats breakfast. Not everyone kills people with lethal gas. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/23 "2021-06-03T23:21:48Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > The states are striking back in saying that if we can’t have lethal injection then we will revert to our earlier methods of execution, so if you think that the gas chamber is a bad thing, then maybe give us access to the lethal injection drugs? Who blinks first is yet to be seen. It’s not a question of blinking. Pharmaceutical companies don’t want their drugs used to kill people. I don’t see how that changes because the government chooses to gas people. The drug companies might in fact see it as confirming that governments will kill in any way they can, and the drug companies should stay away from helping. If anything, I would think that gassing people would encourage the resolve of drug companies, EU regulators and others who have restricted access to drugs. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/24 "2021-06-03T23:32:28Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Everyone eats breakfast. > > Not everyone kills people with lethal gas. I understand that but the fact that Nazis used lethal gas for executions was not the reason that they were evil. It was the people that they executed that made them evil. It wouldn’t have mattered if they used hanging, the electric chair, lethal injection, etc. They did use firing squads early on, but that doesn’t make Utah a bunch of Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/25 "2021-06-04T01:01:53Z")
It is possible to make a case against the use of asphyxiating gas like hydrogen cyanide to execute killers (something done by multiple states in the past such as California) without stupid and offensive references to Nazi Germany. I was disgusted with headlines today (including on the ABC News and Boston Globe websites) expressing outrage over impending use of “Nazi gas” in executions. All that accomplishes is to grievously insult the memory of Holocaust victims, minimizing the horror of what happened and equating Holocaust victims with murderers. It’s grotesque insensitivity along the lines of what antivaxers do when they display yellow stars of David with the words “Not Vaccinated”. I’d expect Dopers to know better. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/26 "2021-06-04T01:35:36Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > {…} I’d expect Dopers to know better. Have you been the Pit where we’ve established that Republicans are worse than Nazis . . . because global warming. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/27 "2021-06-04T01:41:16Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Not everyone kills people with lethal gas. What’s so special about gas? A certain number of Holocaust victims were also killed by firing squad, too. Doesn’t make firing squad a wrong method to use. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/28 "2021-06-04T01:46:40Z")
> [@bump](#): > > cyanide has long been the preferred toxic gas, starting 20 years prior to WWII It was barbaric before WWII. It was barbaric at Auschwitz. It’s barbaric now. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/29 "2021-06-04T01:57:00Z")
Look, death is, fundamentally, by its very nature, unpleasant. Aside from the very few methods that some have suggested, such as nitrogen, there really is no pleasant way to put someone to death. Is cyanide fun? No, and as I’ve said upthread, there are better chemicals than that. But on the barbaric/not-barbaric spectrum of the many dozens of execution methods that exist, it already ranks better than many. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/30 "2021-06-04T02:01:27Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > … there really is no pleasant way to put someone to death “And the moral of that is…” said the Duchess. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/31 "2021-06-04T02:03:22Z")
Yeah, the Guardian is anti DP. While I accept that and applaud that stance, note that they think that NO possible method of the DP is humane. You can’t fairly just say _that_ method is inhumane and _this_ method is inhumane when you really mean _all methods are inhumane._ Note that Cyanide has been used in the USA before, so the SS reference is unfair. And comparing the mass murder of innocents to the death of a killer convicted by a jury of his peers and allowed many appeals is really over the top. The two are not comparable in any way shape or form. The Nazis also killed Jewish innocents with gunfire. Should our armed formed be re-armed with squirt guns? Or shall we issue them with SS shoulder patches too? After all, one of our machine guns was copied from the German MG42, which was used to killed many during the holocaust. Is the Army nazi? Going too far. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/32 "2021-06-04T02:03:58Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I don’t really think that matters too much in this case, though. The point of referencing the Xyklon B is that the general public knows how inhumane that was to use that pesticide to kill humans. If you mentioned that the US also used the same chemical, some people would assume that it must not have been that bad, as they assume “US = good.” What method _is_ humane, then? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/33 "2021-06-04T02:04:42Z")
You die slowly, choking and gasping. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/34 "2021-06-04T02:08:04Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > All that accomplishes is to grievously insult the memory of Holocaust victims, minimizing the horror of what happened and equating Holocaust victims with murderers. I concur. I do not like the DP. Especially as how it is done in Texas- too damn often. But comparing this to the Holocaust is simply wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/35 "2021-06-04T02:14:16Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > All that accomplishes is to grievously insult the memory of Holocaust victims, minimizing the horror of what happened and equating Holocaust victims with murderers. The Jerusalem Post apparently didn’t get your memo. > **[Arizona wants to use Zyklon B to execute inmates on death row](https://www.jpost.com/international/state-of-arizona-to-begin-using-zyklon-b-to-execute-inmates-on-death-row-669655)** > > Hydrogen cyanide gas, named by the Third Reich as Zyklon B, was used by the Nazis to kill over a million people in the Holocaust. The state of Arizona now wants to use it in executions. > [@](#): > > Despite Arizona’s efforts to present their planned execution method as acceptable and reputable, the name Zyklon B is inextricably linked to the horrors of the past, when over a million Jews and others were murdered in Nazi gas chambers using the lethal gas between 1942 and 1945. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/36 "2021-06-04T02:17:47Z")
Is gas execution really that better if done with some other insecticide? I mean, you could probably find some chemical that causes the exact amount of suffering as Zyklon B, but just without the unsavory name. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/37 "2021-06-04T02:18:06Z")
They should also know better. Sometimes people’s strongly held beliefs lead them into vile forms of advocacy. This is such an occasion. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/38 "2021-06-04T02:19:12Z")
Note that they did not call the Arizona Penal Guard= nazis. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > SS shoulder patches optional for the guards. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/39 "2021-06-04T02:25:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But comparing this to the Holocaust is simply wrong. There is a point of view that comparing anything to the Holocaust is simply wrong. That the Holocaust is an incomparable evil. I don’t agree with that point of view. I personally think that comparing and contrasting is important and valuable. Even though equating is an unavoidable part of comparing and contrasting. * * * Separately, many people have believed that doing anything that is identified with the NAZIs is offensive, insensitive, disrespectful, and worse. The Swastika is not inherently evil, but it only exists in Indian references and Fascist posters. The idea that people shouldn’t associate gassing people with the NAZI’s ‘because it’s not the Holocaust’ is so alien to me that I struggle to give it credence. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561/40 "2021-06-04T02:29:26Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > There is a point of view that comparing anything to the Holocaust is simply wrong. That the Holocaust is an incomparable evil. Other large scale Genocides like that of Stalin or Pol Pot. Nothing else. > [@Melbourne](#): > > The idea that people shouldn’t associate gassing people with the NAZI’s ‘because it’s not the Holocaust’ is so alien to me that I struggle to give it credence. So we should not arm our army with guns as the nazis shot many during the Holocaust? It is a stupid comparison. Look, be honest and say “The Death Penalty, no matter how you do it- is wrong”. Coming with with _this_ method is nazi, _that_ method is inhumane, etc is disingenuous. Say what you mean. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arizona-to-use-zyklon-b-to-kill-prisoners/943561.md?page=3)