# Armando Galaraga (Tigers) robbed of perfect game **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 3, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716 "2010-06-03T00:54:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/181 "2010-06-12T19:29:23Z")
> [@DChord568](#): > > Wow. > > Up to this point, I thought I was having a discussion with a rational human being who happened to hold a view that was different from mine. > > As you stand there with blood streaming down your face and state “No, you didn’t punch me in the nose,” it’s clear to me that I was mistaken. > > It’s clear that you will cling to any rationalization, no matter how twisted, to support your point of view. It’s clear you will go to the ends of the earth and do the written equivalent of singing “La la la la” while plugging your ears forever, as long as you believe it helps you avoid any consideration of events that actually took place in real life. > > In real life, Galarraga’s foot touched first base before Donald’s…thus, he did everything required for him to pitch a perfect game. I’d ask you to dispute the truth of that statement, but frankly, don’t bother. You asked for a simple yes or no and I provided it. I asked for a simple yes or no and you go off on a complete non-sequitur about nose punching and claims of tenuous positions. You’ve done nothing to show how Galarraga pitched a pefect game. I have not only the rules of baseball on my side, but the response of the commissioner as well. You claim my position is tenuous? Wow. It is clear you will cling to any rationalization, no matter how twisted, to support your point of view. > [@DChord568](#): > > Sorry, I won’t be bound by your restrictions. That you impose them at all, as I noted, indicates that you know your position is tenuous. Assumes facts not in evidence. If my position is so tenuous, how come you can’t point to the box score showing the perfect game? > [@DChord568](#): > > Did Galarraga pitch a perfect game? Yes he did. Oh goody, an answer. Now, point to the box score that proves this claim. A perfect game, as you pointed out, has a specific meaning. Either your understanding of that meaning is flawed or your own feigned incredulousness at the start of this response is laughable and hypocritical. > [@DChord568](#): > > According to you, even if the Commissioner says “I’m reversing this ruling because it affects only a personal record, not a game outcome, so don’t even _think_ about coming to me in the future and asking that I reverse a decision that affects a game outcome, because I won’t do it” – the office will still be flooded with frivolous requests from the legions of dishonest (and downright stupid) baseball players, managers and executives who somehow don’t understand the word “no.” This onslaught will be so overwhelming and grievous that the office of the Commissioner will be rendered helpless and unable to function. _Yawn_ Same claims, different day. Your own actions have proven that people will use twisted logic to try and force the precedent issue. Your argument about the extreme is just another strawman and does not address the real questions and concerns around setting this type of precedent. > [@DChord568](#): > > As you once said, I have answers for everything else you’ve written, but I find at this juncture that it’s no longer worth the effort of writing them out. I’m sure you do. But it will all be the same thing. You won’t show a cite for the perfect game and will side step any and all questions to you by either trying to twist it into some meaningless and worthless analogy or you will completely ignore the facts. And then you’ll claim I’m the irrational one. > [@DChord568](#): > > Please feel free to crow about your “victory” here, and say whatever you like in response to this. I’m content to let you have the last word. > > Until you reconsider your answer to my question about punching you in the nose, all further discussion between us is futile. I prefer the assurance of knowing that the person I’m having a discussion with is playing with a full deck. The discussion was futile from the beginning. Talking to you is every bit as fun as talking to a 9-11 truther, a birther or even a moan-hoaxer. You live in a world without reality and will sidestep all evidence that proves you wrong, then use strawmen arguments and ad-hominem attacks, exactly like this one. See, reality is on my side, and that is neither tenuous nor irrational. Donald is safe and Galarraga does not have a perfect game. To claim otherwise is denying reality. I have the cites and the facts to back me up. You have none of that. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/182 "2010-06-12T20:04:43Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > But I’ll answer yours. No, you did not punch me in the nose. I think your argument was fine up to this point. This is stupid. You got punched in the nose regardless of whether there are witnesses or not. The reality of the situation is not determined by some external arbiter, unlike the baseball situation. You can (and do) make the argument that the perfect game only exists within the reality of the rules of baseball. If the umpire calls somebody safe, they’re safe, regardless of whether further review shows the call to be incorrect (at least until rules are changed and instant replay is allowed into the game.) I could buy this argument. In my mind, the game _should_ have been a perfect game, but wasn’t because of one individual’s massive fuck-up in judgment. Unless the call is somehow reversed and the box score changed, it’s an unfortunate situation, but it isn’t a perfect game within the current rules of baseball and the reality of the box score. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/183 "2010-06-12T23:04:45Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I think your argument was fine up to this point. This is stupid. You got punched in the nose regardless of whether there are witnesses or not. The reality of the situation is not determined by some external arbiter, unlike the baseball situation. Could be. But this is how I interpreted his analogy, so tell me where it goes wrong: He and I both know he knows there is reality and there is baseball reality. We go around in circles arguing baseball reality vs. reality reality. His argument is that reality reality trumps baseball reality in this narrow, specific case because of the celebration of this event and because of the very rare occurrence of it. You and I both agree that reality reality doesn’t exist outside of the rules of baseball. He is arguing it does. Let me know how I’m doing so far. In his nose punching analogy, he asked if a punch was actually thrown. He is trying to highlight reality reality vs. law reality. Mapping that into the perfect game situation, reality reality is that the punch was thrown (Donald was out). In the law reality (baseball reality) no punch was thrown (Donald was safe). He didn’t ask me which reality to apply. He asked what happened. I answered from the perspective of the law. If asked for a cite, I’d point to the finder of fact in the case who would declare no punch was thrown. He cannot do the same with the perfect game question and he knows it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716.md?page=9)