# Armando Galaraga (Tigers) robbed of perfect game **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 3, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716 "2010-06-03T00:54:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/61 "2010-06-03T15:17:47Z")
The game was over the moment Galarraga caught the ball. I don’t see an issue with correcting a mistake made \*after \*the game, as this one was. Most mistakes aren’t fixable, but this one is, and sportsmanship demands it. So Selig won’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/62 "2010-06-03T15:18:53Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Because it’s meaningless. Tell me one thing MLB gets away with that isn’t exactly true of the NFL, NBA, NHL, and any other major sporting organization. > > They get away with it because there’s nothing to get away with. What actionable issue are you oing to sue them over? Anything they do the NFL does, so why should baseball not be treated the same way? And the NFL et al. never got anti-trust exemptions. Actually, the NFL had a case go against them in the Supreme Court about a lawsuit filed against them for antitrust violations in merchandising. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/63 "2010-06-03T15:36:55Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > If you were the batter, would you have told the ump you were out and asked him to reverse the call? I probably would have, but I’m not a major league player. Although the chances are slim, there was the opportunity for a comeback and at the professional level you really should be playing until your final out. The batter probably didn’t know if he was safe or out. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/64 "2010-06-03T15:52:33Z")
> [@cmosdes](#): > > If you were the batter, would you have told the ump you were out and asked him to reverse the call? Is this even legal to do so in baseball? I know cricket is a different story, and there have been many cases of a player giving himself out even when the umpire ruled otherwise. But the Laws of Cricket specifically allow the batsman to do so. ---
**Author:** ![IAmNotSpartacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IAmNotSpartacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmNotSpartacus)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/65 "2010-06-03T15:53:48Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Because it’s meaningless. Tell me one thing MLB gets away with that isn’t exactly true of the NFL, NBA, NHL, and any other major sporting organization. Running a collusive trust ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/66 "2010-06-03T15:58:18Z")
There was a similar blown call on the last play of the Twins-Mariners game last night too. Obviously it wan’t as significant as the Joyce call, but it was a clearly erroneous call (not just a Twins fan bitching) that decided a ballgame. It’s time for instant replay. They need to find a way to do it. I know they don’t want managers challenging every bang-bang play at a bag, but maybe a limited number of challenges per game or something would work, or maybe the crew can be given the discretion to do it in certain situations, but they need to figure out something. I’d like to see an electronic strike zone too, but I think I’m on an island with that. I must say that Galaraga showed amazing class and self-control in not saying a word to Joyce. I won’t trash Joyce. It looked to me like he felt sick to his stomach about it. I doubt that anyone would like to have that moment over again than him. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/67 "2010-06-03T16:03:55Z")
I don’t have a link, but did anyone see the video from the reverse angle where Galaraga appeared to sno-cone the ball as he made the catch? The runner would still have been out by a split second even if you call it a sno-cone catch, but the ball did move inside his glove. That may have been the basis for the safe call (not that I am defending it) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/68 "2010-06-03T16:07:37Z")
Joyce didn’t say anything about that in his statements to the press. He said he just thought the runner had beaten the throw to the bag and that he flat blew the call (or as he repeatedly put it, “kicked the shit out of it”). ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/69 "2010-06-03T16:08:10Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > What’s better than an umpire that can honestly admit when he’s wrong? > > - An arrogant jerk who gets the call right. No such thing as an umpire who doesn’t miss calls from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/70 "2010-06-03T16:17:57Z")
> [@phungi](#): > > If it weren’t the _last out of the game_ I could see argument about overruling the call… however, it was clearly the 27th out and the next batter was also out… > > This should not only be overruled, but he should be celebrated for the only 28-out perfect game in MLB history. That leads to an interesting point. If Jason Donald is called out - as he should’ve been - that makes the 27th out of the game and the next batter, Trevor Crowe doesn’t bat at all. If the call is reversed, shouldn’t Crowe’s AB be wiped out too? He’d go 0-3 instead of 0-4, and his BA would rise from .240 to .243. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/71 "2010-06-03T16:35:32Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > That leads to an interesting point. If Jason Donald is called out - as he should’ve been - that makes the 27th out of the game and the next batter, Trevor Crowe doesn’t bat at all. If the call is reversed, shouldn’t Crowe’s AB be wiped out too? He’d go 0-3 instead of 0-4, and his BA would rise from .240 to .243. 😃 Oh hush, Trevor! 😃 I’d be fully in support of a reversal on this call. Yes, it runs afoul of tradition, but tradition can be wrong. Especially given the umpire says it was a blown call, I think this one is a fairly easy fix. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/72 "2010-06-03T16:38:44Z")
Baseball has backed up much farther into games to compensate for bad calls. I remind you of [The Pine Tar Game](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Tar_Game). Yes, Crowe’s AB would be wiped out. I don’t think he’d mind. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/73 "2010-06-03T16:44:05Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Because it’s meaningless. Tell me one thing MLB gets away with that isn’t exactly true of the NFL, NBA, NHL, and any other major sporting organization. Preventing franchise relocation. ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/74 "2010-06-03T16:45:47Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I don’t have a link, but did anyone see the video from the reverse angle where Galaraga appeared to sno-cone the ball as he made the catch? The runner would still have been out by a split second even if you call it a sno-cone catch, but the ball did move inside his glove. That may have been the basis for the safe call (not that I am defending it) In a situation such as you describe, most umps would immediately make some sort of gesture to indicate that this was the basis of their safe call. As Joyce did not, and did not make any subsequent reference, we can pretty well dismiss this…even though, like you, I noticed that the ball seemed to rattle around in Galaraga’s glove a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/75 "2010-06-03T16:47:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Baseball has backed up much farther into games to compensate for bad calls. I remind you of [The Pine Tar Game](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Tar_Game). > > Yes, Crowe’s AB would be wiped out. I don’t think he’d mind. Pinetar was different. The game was played under protest and the protest was upheld. There is no precident for overturning a safe/out call. > [@](#): > > I’d be fully in support of a reversal on this call. Yes, it runs afoul of tradition, but tradition can be wrong. What exactly is the tradition that is wrong? That the commish hasn’t ever overturned a call? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/76 "2010-06-03T16:51:48Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > That leads to an interesting point. If Jason Donald is called out - as he should’ve been - that makes the 27th out of the game and the next batter, Trevor Crowe doesn’t bat at all. If the call is reversed, shouldn’t Crowe’s AB be wiped out too? He’d go 0-3 instead of 0-4, and his BA would rise from .240 to .243. 😃 That’s exactly how I would do it. Donald was put out 3-1 at first. Game over. No 28th batter, and nobody shall ever mention these things from this day forward under penalty of torture. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/77 "2010-06-03T16:54:50Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > This is a good question, btw. > > Ethically, I don’t think it would be correct for a major league player to do this. Jason Donald has a fiduciary responsibility to perform his duties to the best of his ability, and his job is to win ball games for his team. Reversing a base hit (even if Joyce would have reversed his call) would be granting an advantage to the Tigers and away from his own team. I’m sure Donald feels bad for Galarraga but he has a duty to help the Indians win by any means possible within the rules of the sport. You don’t just give up a gift base hit. I agree, which is why I said that at a major league level you play to the last out. I don’t fault Jason Donald on bit for what he taking the gift. He did what he needed to do. **Duke** If that was the worst call you’ve ever seen, I really wonder how much baseball you’ve actually watched. He wasn’t out by two steps. Maybe a step. By the time Galarraga got his foot down it was a very close play. ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/78 "2010-06-03T16:57:55Z")
According to [this](http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/15328466903), Selig will make a statement later today. I would feel confident betting a hundred bucks that he won’t have the guts to do anything other than nothing. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/79 "2010-06-03T17:04:13Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > Feh. This is a call that everyone – the other team, the ump, every person with eyes – says was blown, and it’s not blown a little. It’s obviously blown. You can treat truly extraordinary situations in extraordinary ways without affecting the way you treat the rest of the game. > > –Cliffy I wonder where the line between “extraordinary” and “ordinary” would be drawn. Suppose this was the 3rd out of the 8th inning and Galarraga went on to retire the side very quietly in the 9th. What if he wasn’t going for a perfect game, but rather a no-hitter? Suppose instead of this being a perfect game, it was Pujols, with 73 home runs, hits a deep fly ball in the last game of the season in the bottom of the 9th with his team down 4 and 0 on. The ump rules he hit a home run and the next batter hits a weak ground out. Replay shows that a fan reached over the fence and took the ball away from the fielder waiting under it. Does Pujols keep the home run record or does he stay tied with the player who shall not be named? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716/80 "2010-06-03T17:05:58Z")
Joyce is home plate ump today. He walked out to the plate, fighting back tears. Today he should give the Tigers all the calls. Galaragga gave the ump the lineup card. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galaraga-tigers-robbed-of-perfect-game/541716.md?page=5)