# Armando Galarraga: A Perfect Solution is to Make it Perfect **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 3, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769 "2010-06-03T14:24:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/41 "2010-06-03T22:13:13Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > By that reasoning we should overturn every court case in the last year. That would create good will (among criminals) and deflect the abuse and criticisms the cops, lawyers and judges receive. > > “Life is pain. Anybody who tells you different is selling something.” Your analogy works if we are only overturning the incorect verdicts, and I don’t think anyone would have a problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![gravitycrash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/42 "2010-06-04T00:50:53Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > Whatever Bud Selig decides will almost certainly be wrong. > Remember, this is the guy who brought you a [tied All-Star game](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/2002/allstar/news/2002/07/09/allstar_game_ap/). > > Selig is probably the least competent MLB Commissioner ever. > \* > This is, of course, merely my opinion and does not reflect the opinion of Major League Baseball, its fans, stockholders, lawyers or Satanic emissaries.\* Indeed. With his latest decision his record in my opinion is about 0-100. Somehow baseball survives despite this idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/43 "2010-06-04T14:39:29Z")
Galaragga may be more immortal because of this than if he had actually completed this game perfectly. Think of Harvey Haddix. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/44 "2010-06-04T14:46:35Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > Remember, this is the guy who brought you a [tied All-Star game](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/2002/allstar/news/2002/07/09/allstar_game_ap/). I’m no Selig fan, but the fault for the tied game was that of the managers. They feel compelled to use up the bench once the seventh inning rolls around, sometimes getting a pitcher in the game for one lousy batter, then they found they didn’t have enough pitchers for more than a few extra innings. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/45 "2010-06-04T14:50:25Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m no Selig fan, but the fault for the tied game was that of the managers. They feel compelled to use up the bench once the seventh inning rolls around, sometimes getting a pitcher in the game for one lousy batter, then they found they didn’t have enough pitchers for more than a few extra innings. No, I put that one squarely on the commish. The managers managed the game as it has been managed for a very long time. An extra inning game was going to happen eventually. A plan should have been in place to deal with this inevitable scenario. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/46 "2010-06-04T15:07:52Z")
I’d write a post but I summed up my thoguhts on my blog. [Today’s blog.](http://rickthegreat.wordpress.com/2010/06/04/sort-of-perfect/) ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/47 "2010-06-04T16:38:25Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Galaragga may be more immortal because of this than if he had actually completed this game perfectly. Think of Harvey Haddix. The difference is, Haddix’s name is in the record books. Galarraga’s will not be. That’s wrong, because in the real world, Galarraga did exactly what the other 20 pitchers who came before him did…he allowed no runner in 27 to reach base safely. Jim Joyce said that Donald reached first base safely, but he was wrong. That **did not happen**. There is 100 percent agreement on this point. I’ve gone over my views in the other thread, so I’ll keep it short here. This is a unique circumstance. The history of baseball (20 perfect games out of more than 391,000 played since 1875) tells us that it is extremely unlikely to occur again. Saying we can’t make an exception here because it opens the door to all sorts of future exceptions is saying that no one in baseball will ever be competent enough to evaluate a future situation on its own merits and say “Sorry, this one just doesn’t cut it.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/48 "2010-06-04T17:01:58Z")
Haddix has NOT been in the record books since MLB redefined no-hitters in 1991. That is a travesty in itself, but a different topic. ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/49 "2010-06-04T17:35:12Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Haddix has NOT been in the record books since MLB redefined no-hitters in 1991. That is a travesty in itself, but a different topic. Wow, you’re right! I stand corrected. And yes, it is a travesty. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/50 "2010-06-04T18:19:30Z")
> [@DChord568](#): > > Saying we can’t make an exception here because it opens the door to all sorts of future exceptions is saying that no one in baseball will ever be competent enough to evaluate a future situation on its own merits and say “Sorry, this one just doesn’t cut it.” **DChord568** , you have manged to distill everything I think about this situation into one clear, succinct sentence. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/51 "2010-06-04T18:32:59Z")
Saw this story on Rachel Maddow’s blog today. Both Keith Olbermann and and her producer Bill Wolff had a rant on the subject. I liked Bill Wolff’s rant on the subject better. He is on the side of not changing the call. Maybe I’m just biased against Olbermann cause I can’t really stand him. [http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/\_news/2010/06/04/4462715-baseballs-perfect-imperfections](http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/06/04/4462715-baseballs-perfect-imperfections) ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/52 "2010-06-04T19:30:24Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Reminder: If the call had been made correctly, the game would be over at that point. Over. The bad call came after the game was already over. A correction of it would not affect that in any way except to correct the scoring of Donald’s groundout and to wipe out Crowe’s AB. But scoring changes like that get made routinely already, even days later, and even when the play was blatantly an error and not a hit ;). > > Sportsmanship requires respect for officials’ calls, certainly, even when they’re of the pine-tar variety. But the official himself, also acting in the principle of sportsmanship has been as public as anyone about saying what the right call would have been. Sportsmanship requires respect for players, too. Either way, sportsmanship requires reversing the call. It is only rarely possible, sure, but this is such a case. > [@kunilou](#): > > Nonsense, the final call is just as integral a part of the game as the first call. The game wasn’t “over” before the bad call, any more than a basketball game is over when the buzzer sounds between the time the player throws up a desperation shot and it goes through the hoop. The truth is somewhere in the middle here. The bad call was not made after the game was “over.” The bad call was what _prevented_ the game from being over as it should have been. A correct call would have indeed meant that the game was over – one nanosecond after the call was made. Nevertheless, contrary to what some have said, the call of the final out of a baseball game differs from all calls made before it. Following this dispute down the slippery slope that so many seem to fear, reversing a bad call made earlier in the game means you would have to replay the game from that point forward and take a chance on a completely different outcome. I agree that this is somewhere baseball ought not go. But in Wednesday’s game, no such danger results from reversing Tim Joyce’s call. If it is reversed, Donald is the 27th out (as he was, we’re all agreed, in real life), and there is no other possible outcome to the game. It’s over. The basketball analogy doesn’t apply. It has always been the case that a ball in the air at the time the buzzer sounds is permitted to complete its course, and will count as a basket if it goes through the hoop. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/53 "2010-06-04T19:38:42Z")
The Tigers and Chevrolet gave Galarraga a Corvette (per the Fox story above)- I hope he gets the license plate “28 OUTS” ---
**Author:** ![Ruminator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/54 "2010-06-04T19:50:12Z")
> [@DChord568](#): > > Nevertheless, contrary to what some have said, the call of the final out of a baseball game differs from all calls made before it. Following this dispute down the slippery slope that so many seem to fear, reversing a bad call made earlier in the game means you would have to replay the game from that point forward and take a chance on a completely different outcome. One doesn’t have to agree or disagree with your position to point out that your logic is incorrect here. It’s inconsistent. Any event that forks an alternate history is DIFFERENT… period. A game being “over” vs having a 28th batter is simply 2 different possible timelines. A 3-2 pitch being called a “strike vs ball” on the first batter of the 1st inning results in 2 different timelines. If it’s a “ball”, he walks – possibly setting up the winning run in a 1-0 score. If it’s a strike, it could lead to a 0-0 game in the 9th leading to extra innings. A “game over” alternate history is no different than a 1st-inning “next pitch” alternate history. It’s simply a human bias to favor the last play (or next to last) of the game. If Marty McFly were to travel back to a particular game, Doc Brown would warn him that tampering with the 1st inning in any way has the same ramifications as interfering with the 9th inning. I can certainly see that there are possible interpretations of MLB integrity for reversing the call but the specific logic as you have laid out is flawed. ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/55 "2010-06-04T20:50:52Z")
> [@Ruminator](#): > > One doesn’t have to agree or disagree with your position to point out that your logic is incorrect here. It’s inconsistent. > > Any event that forks an alternate history is DIFFERENT… period. > > A game being “over” vs having a 28th batter is simply 2 different possible timelines. > > A 3-2 pitch being called a “strike vs ball” on the first batter of the 1st inning results in 2 different timelines. If it’s a “ball”, he walks – possibly setting up the winning run in a 1-0 score. If it’s a strike, it could lead to a 0-0 game in the 9th leading to extra innings. > > A “game over” alternate history is no different than a 1st-inning “next pitch” alternate history. It’s simply a human bias to favor the last play (or next to last) of the game. > > If Marty McFly were to travel back to a particular game, Doc Brown would warn him that tampering with the 1st inning in any way has the same ramifications as interfering with the 9th inning. > > I can certainly see that there are possible interpretations of MLB integrity for reversing the call but the specific logic as you have laid out is flawed. I don’t follow your logic here at all. Certainly there’s no reason in this case to appeal to time-travel scenarios or speak of “tampering.” Look at it this way… Scenario 1: A child is born. He may grow up to be a doctor, or he may grow up to be a mass murderer. The possibilities are virtually limitless. Scenario 2: A child is stillborn. All discussion of his future stops right there. Scenario 1: A safe call is made in the 7th inning with two outs, when in reality, the runner is out. But regardless of the reality, any number of virtually limitless possibilities may follow. Scenario 2: A safe call is made in the bottom of the 9th with two outs, when in reality, the runner is out. If the _wrong_ call is made, any number of possibilities may follow. If the _correct_ call is made, NOTHING can follow. Nothing. The game is over, and all discussion of the game’s future stops right there. No “alternate history” is possible. This isn’t “human bias”…it’s the reality of baseball. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/56 "2010-06-04T21:14:22Z")
I’m not sure it would feel much better for Galarraga at this point…he may always feel like it had an asterisk next to it. It’s one of those crappy things that happens in life, and it’s just too bad. Maybe the worst part is that there’s no real villain in this story…I feel bad for the pitcher, the ump, the fielder, and the baserunner…none of them want to be in this situation right now. And since none of them are the villain, Bud Selig is going to be it. It’s up to him if he wants that role, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Ruminator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Ruminator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruminator)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/57 "2010-06-04T21:47:27Z")
> [@DChord568](#): > > This isn’t “human bias”…it’s the reality of baseball. It is human bias. You’re giving more weight to THAT particular incorrect call vs all the previous incorrect calls in that particular game AND all the previous calls of previous games before that. That’s bias. > [@](#): > > If the _correct_ call is made, NOTHING can follow. Nothing. The game is over, and all discussion of the game’s future stops right there. No “alternate history” is possible. It looks like you do see scenarios of possible alternate timelines… however, for some reason, you’ve placed an artificial boundary at the 27th batter vs the 28th batter of that ONE GAME. One could easily be arbitrary in a different way and simply say the boundary isn’t actually the “game”, it’s actually the World Series season. If you give less weight to incorrect calls in the middle of the game vs the end of the game, then another person could easily give less weight to the **outcome of individual games** (even though teams win-loss will affect their seedings in the postseason) in favor of reversing calls only in the World Series. Isn’t different possible postseason seedings (and possible World Series champions) another valid case of “alternate history?” Also as **Buck Godot** astutely pointed out, if the runner was actually safe and incorrectly called out, people wouldn’t be screaming at Bud Selig to strip Galarraga of his perfect game. That’s also human bias. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/58 "2010-06-04T23:01:08Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Galaragga may be more immortal because of this than if he had actually completed this game perfectly. Think of Harvey Haddix. That’s what I’ve been thinking. Without looking it up, can anybody here name the 20 perfect games that are in the record books? But whenever the subject comes up, people will remember Galaragga and the perfect game that should have been. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/59 "2010-06-04T23:11:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Haddix has NOT been in the record books since MLB redefined no-hitters in 1991. That is a travesty in itself, but a different topic. They can change the record books all they want. I know what Harvey Haddix did, so do you, and so do most baseball fans. Bud Selig can’t tell me what history is. I know what it is. Armando Galarraga pitched a perfect game - and at 28 outs, the most perfect game ever pitched, and that’s the end of it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769/60 "2010-06-05T00:02:01Z")
Can’t get real worked up about it. It wouldn’t be a perfect game anyway, unless they found a way to insert at least three trips to the batter’s box for Galarraga. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armando-galarraga-a-perfect-solution-is-to-make-it-perfect/541769.md?page=4)