# Armed Police Helicopters-Illegal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 18, 2002, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armed-police-helicopters-illegal/137281 "2002-11-18T06:27:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armed-police-helicopters-illegal/137281/41 "2016-01-26T14:35:06Z")
> [@aeropl](#): > > It is illegal for the military (who operates Apache helicopters) to perform domestic police duties. I don’t know if there would be an exception to the rule because the tank was stolen from the military. Anybody else know? I’m pretty sure the Posse Comitatus Act only applies to active-duty Federal forces. There are plenty of examples where National Guard units have been used to do police duty after natural disasters, riots and what-not. I suspect though, that had that business with the tank gone on much longer, they’d probably have got a NG unit to use some sort of close-range anti-tank tactic to immobilize it (make it throw a track or disable the engine), and then just waited the guy out. I’d think a good old-fashioned Molotov cocktail might have done the job on the engine actually. That said, I don’t think there are any actual prohibitions on armed helicopters- law enforcement is allowed to have automatic weapons, and they’re allowed to have helicopters, so why not both? The real question would be one of utility- just what law enforcement role is a machine gun on a helicopter going to serve? ---
**Author:** ![SpyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SpyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpyOne)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armed-police-helicopters-illegal/137281/42 "2016-01-26T15:34:39Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Welcome to the straight dope, **thomasroche** , you should note that the discussion you revived is 14 years old, although apparently still a crowd pleaser. Interesting that nobody seems to have addressed the actual original question. Yes, police sometimes fire weapons from helicopters, but the question was about _mounting_ weapons on one. Several people noted that there is little reason for the police to go to the expense, but that still sidesteps the question: In the movie Blue Thunder, Roy Scheider’s character says “I thought it was _illegal_ to arm police helicopters.” [https://youtu.be/sd3lDhyM21M?t=43s](https://youtu.be/sd3lDhyM21M?t=43s) Is this true? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armed-police-helicopters-illegal/137281/43 "2016-01-26T15:53:24Z")
> [@SpyOne](#): > > Interesting that nobody seems to have addressed the actual original question. > > Yes, police sometimes fire weapons from helicopters, but the question was about _mounting_ weapons on one. Several people noted that there is little reason for the police to go to the expense, but that still sidesteps the question: > > In the movie Blue Thunder, Roy Scheider’s character says “I thought it was _illegal_ to arm police helicopters.” [https://youtu.be/sd3lDhyM21M?t=43s](https://youtu.be/sd3lDhyM21M?t=43s) > Is this true? A throwaway line in a fictional movie good law does not make. It really depends on “what police, what weapons.” For instance, the US Coast Guard is a federal law enforcement agency. But they’re also one of the Armed Forces of the United States. So their helicopters are armed. Example: [USCG MH-65 with door mounted M-240 machine gun.](http://defence-force.blogspot.com/2012/02/dauphin-helicopter.html) The ones in the [USCG HITRON](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_Interdiction_Tactical_Squadron) are armed specifically for law enforcement purpose (stopping go-fast drug smuggler boats). So, we can say that federal paramilitary law-enforcement helicopters can be armed with light aircraft weapons. Doesn’t address the question of non-federal law enforcement, since the answer to that is in the various state laws, municipal codes, and local politics. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armed-police-helicopters-illegal/137281/44 "2016-01-27T00:10:44Z")
> [@SpyOne](#): > > In the movie Blue Thunder, Roy Scheider’s character says “I thought it was _illegal_ to arm police helicopters.” [https://youtu.be/sd3lDhyM21M?t=43s](https://youtu.be/sd3lDhyM21M?t=43s) > Is this true? The movie [is set in LA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Thunder). And in California police [DO fire from helicopters](http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/09/robert-farago/ca-police-helicopter-sniper-shoots-and-kills-robbery-suspect/). So I am going to say that in real life LA, the movie is wrong (shockingly!) and arming police helicopters is legal. Of course there _could_ be a law that makes mounting weapons ON a helicopter illegal, but firing weapons from inside one legal, but I find that hard to believe. A more involved discussion from LA Times is [here](http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-police-shooting-from-helicopters-rare-but-not-unheardof-20150919-story.html): > [@](#): > > The use of the helicopter technique is so rare, however, that there is no published legal decision testing officers’ ability to use the specific tactic, noted Obayashi, a former public defender who now advises law enforcement agencies on use-of-force issues. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armed-police-helicopters-illegal/137281/45 "2016-01-27T00:12:24Z")
More disturbing than the fact the police can legally shoot at your from a gunship is this snippet I came across in the Blue Thunder wiki: > [@](#): > > Sony is developing a remake of Blue Thunder focusing on drone technology, with Dana Brunetti and Michael De Luca as producers, and Craig Kyle as writer. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armed-police-helicopters-illegal/137281/46 "2016-01-27T03:00:06Z")
> [@SpyOne](#): > > Interesting that nobody seems to have addressed the actual original question. > > Yes, police sometimes fire weapons from helicopters, but the question was about _mounting_ weapons on one. Several people noted that there is little reason for the police to go to the expense, but that still sidesteps the question: Was there something wrong with my answer? I gave an actual example of a SWAT Team with _mounted_ belt-fed machineguns on their helicopters. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armed-police-helicopters-illegal/137281/47 "2016-01-27T03:33:21Z")
Piling on to a zombie thread. If the cops do need an actual gunship or several, with all the intendant weaponry , you may as well be calling in the army/guard. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armed-police-helicopters-illegal/137281/48 "2016-01-28T16:42:50Z")
Depending on how you mount the weapons there may also be a requirement to officially certify the modification to the aircraft, or at least to test it to make sure that it doesn’t adversely affect the flight characteristics. Not many police departments are going to be able to do this themselves , and I doubt that the helicopter manufacturer would see this as a cost-effective upgrade program given the very limited potential market. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armed-police-helicopters-illegal/137281/49 "2016-01-28T18:08:40Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > Depending on how you mount the weapons there may also be a requirement to officially certify the modification to the aircraft, or at least to test it to make sure that it doesn’t adversely affect the flight characteristics. Not many police departments are going to be able to do this themselves , and I doubt that the helicopter manufacturer would see this as a cost-effective upgrade program given the very limited potential market. The easier way would to to acquire a pre-armed military version. As a full weapon system (in the military sense), I’d expect the airworthiness certification stuff would either be (A) already in the can, or (B) a mere formality based on DoD functional testing and accreditation. Considering you’d be altering the aircraft a lot less than a lot of normal “demilitarized” military-to-civilian transfers. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armed-police-helicopters-illegal/137281/50 "2016-01-29T13:02:43Z")
[quote=“Enola\_Straight, post:33, topic:137281”] Back in the mid-80s the Philadelphia police dropped a time-bomb on a house to evict radical pains-in-the-ass terrorizing the street. The resulting fire BURNED DOWN THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD! [/QUOTE] It wasn't a 'time bomb' it was a large flash-bang concussion grenade. Along with concussion it also produced a fairly large (yet quick) fireball which started a small fire on the roof. What happened is that the city (Mayor) \*deliberately\* held back the Fire Dept from extinguishing it in the hope that the smoke would flush the MOVE assholes out of their stronghold. But the fire quickly got out of control and burned down an entire city block. The city absolutely screwed up and owed the displaced civilians compensation, but ultimately the legal & ethical blame lay firmly with the MOVE group. They were nothing more than domestic terrorists. Their ‘grievances’ were completely irrational and unfounded and their methods were not only violent and felonious but actually bordered on treason. Any collateral damage from their actions, regardless of whether it was due to oversights on the part of the city, were strictly their fault and they should have (and I believe were) been held legally accountable for all of it. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armed-police-helicopters-illegal/137281/51 "2016-01-29T18:53:40Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Was there something wrong with my answer? I gave an actual example of a SWAT Team with _mounted_ belt-fed machineguns on their helicopters. NASA (and I have trouble understanding why NASA would need an armed helicopter) is a Federal agency, not a local or state police force. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armed-police-helicopters-illegal/137281/52 "2016-01-29T20:07:58Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > NASA (and I have trouble understanding why NASA would need an armed helicopter) is a Federal agency, not a local or state police force. Could it have something to do with the multibillion-dollar spacecraft and classified military payloads? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armed-police-helicopters-illegal/137281/53 "2016-01-29T20:11:39Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > Could it have something to do with the multibillion-dollar spacecraft and classified military payloads? Maybe, but why helicopters? Are they gonna chase a rocket when it lifts off? In the mean time, why not put armed guards around a hangar or something? ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armed-police-helicopters-illegal/137281/54 "2016-01-29T22:18:03Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > It wasn’t a ‘time bomb’ it was a large flash-bang concussion grenade. Along with concussion it also produced a fairly large (yet quick) fireball which started a small fire on the roof. What happened is that the city (Mayor) _deliberately_ held back the Fire Dept from extinguishing it in the hope that the smoke would flush the MOVE assholes out of their stronghold. But the fire quickly got out of control and burned down an entire city block. > > The city absolutely screwed up and owed the displaced civilians compensation, but ultimately the legal & ethical blame lay firmly with the MOVE group. They were nothing more than domestic terrorists. Their ‘grievances’ were completely irrational and unfounded and their methods were not only violent and felonious but actually bordered on treason. Any collateral damage from their actions, regardless of whether it was due to oversights on the part of the city, were strictly their fault and they should have (and I believe were) been held legally accountable for all of it. I’m not saying that MOVE were great neighbors, or particularly law-abiding, but treason? Was there a war formally declared that I somehow missed, or is ‘treason’ just anything that annoys you? And, do you have any cites on MOVE being found legally responsible for the city’s arson? ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armed-police-helicopters-illegal/137281/55 "2016-01-30T00:00:13Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Maybe, but why helicopters? Are they gonna chase a rocket when it lifts off? In the mean time, why not put armed guards around a hangar or something? To better search for terrorists hiding in the vast swampland surrounding the complex ready to shoot a portable SAM at a Shuttle (or any launch). They also have several airboats with armed personnel patrolling the area for this purpose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/armed-police-helicopters-illegal/137281.md?page=2)