# Arming teachers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927 "2018-02-16T14:48:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/321 "2018-02-23T02:48:22Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > … I’ve lived in cultures with strict regulations of firearms, and one thing I’ve noticed about the latter is that people might still resort to fisticuffs, but the idea of killing someone over a dispute, no matter the degree to which tempers may flare, seems distant and remote. … Where was that, if you don’t mind sharing? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/322 "2018-02-23T02:48:49Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Care to elaborate? Is the “fired” part wrong, because he technically resigned? Was he not a SRO? Did I mess up the name of the county? What? Are you going to ding me because his employment ended last week, and thus “just” wasn’t precisely accurate? Your statement is wrong. You posted bullshit. Go ahead, provide a cite that backs up your statement. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/323 "2018-02-23T02:49:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No no no, we should leave it to the professionals that are just right outside the building. Or, you know, restrict access to guns. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/324 "2018-02-23T02:52:10Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > So now you support the movement to arm Black Lives Matter members since they expect to face armed aggressors, like police and military? That’s quite a change in how you’ve previously postured, I’ll give you that. Please try to not take me so wildly out of context and twist my words into something I never said. I recognize that they may arm themselves, regardless of my wishes one way or the other. The statement of mine that you quoted wasn’t one of support (or opposition). It was simply an observation: ‘They do \_\_\_\_\_.’ I certainly wouldn’t support any sort of a government-funded program “to arm Black Lives Matter members”. They can buy their own guns like the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/325 "2018-02-23T02:53:41Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Your statement is wrong. You posted bullshit. Go ahead, provide a cite that backs up your statement. I don’t have time for your silly games. If you can’t be bothered to tell me _why_ you think it’s wrong, or _which part_ of it you think is wrong, I can’t be bothered to try to guess. ETA: [http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/stoneman-douglas-armed-guard-fired-for-not-going-inside-building-10113444](http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/stoneman-douglas-armed-guard-fired-for-not-going-inside-building-10113444) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/326 "2018-02-23T03:00:58Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t have time for your silly games. If you can’t be bothered to tell me _why_ you think it’s wrong, or _which part_ of it you think is wrong, I can’t be bothered to try to guess. > > ETA: [http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/stoneman-douglas-armed-guard-fired-for-not-going-inside-building-10113444](http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/stoneman-douglas-armed-guard-fired-for-not-going-inside-building-10113444) I don’t see anywhere in that cite that backs up your statement. Your statement was false. It is wrong. It is astounding that you won’t just admit it was wrong and instead accuse me of playing “silly games”. The only silly game here is someone posting incorrect information and not willingly retracting it, especially after noting it in a subsequent post. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/327 "2018-02-23T03:02:29Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I don’t see anywhere in that cite that backs up your statement. Your statement was false. It is wrong. > > It is astounding that you won’t just admit it was wrong and instead accuse me of playing “silly games”. The only silly game here is someone posting incorrect information and not willingly retracting it, especially after noting it in a subsequent post. LOL! :rolleyes: I have no idea with nit you’re picking at, and since you’re apparently too shy to say, have a good night. Your posts here are deeply unserious. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/328 "2018-02-23T03:07:51Z")
Everyone just calm the hell down. Don’t be dismissive or insulting to any other poster. I hope that’s clear. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/329 "2018-02-23T03:22:46Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Or, you know, restrict access to guns. It’s so fucking bizarre that basis of debate for how not to have children murdered is to discuss which kind of good guy is best suited to commit homicide most quickly. It’s like the idea of having nobody dying in hails of bullets is an absurd suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/330 "2018-02-23T03:31:53Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > It’s so fucking bizarre that basis of debate for how not to have children murdered is to discuss which kind of good guy is best suited to commit homicide most quickly. > > It’s like the idea of having nobody dying in hails of bullets is an absurd suggestion. We live in the fetid world of the NRA’s imagination. “What about Kevlar backpacks and bulletproof glass?” How about restricting access to guns? “Maybe lasers and trampolines? Dogs with machetes?” How about reducing access to guns? “Maybe the janitor is really a ninja?” ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/331 "2018-02-23T04:41:16Z")
> [@brujaja](#): > > Well, I was interested to hear about the ROTC student who ushered a bunch of kids into the ROTC room, and then unrolled sheets of kevlar to shield them. > > Since the NRA has multiple millions to spend on lobbying, I’m sure they could afford to put some kind of bullet-proof shield in every classroom. You know, like riot police have, only bigger. I read somewhere that they have made white boards that can be lifted off the wall and used as bulletproof shields. Maybe they could find a way to attach them to the classroom door. > [@Kearsen](#): > > Guns in the classroom are likely to be of greater benefit, not where the shooting starts, but holed up in your classroom. There is nothing heroic about sitting in your classroom with your weapon out hoping that your door doesn’t open and the shooter is there, but if it does, however, it is much better to be armed. > > I don’t think anyone is advocating the armed teachers go out looking for the shooters, but I’ll bet quite a lot of them would certainly feel better if the time comes that they lock their door and wait ,if they had a gun And when do they shoot? As soon as the door opens? As soon as someone steps in? Do you think by the time you positively decide that this is a bad guy with a gun, you’ll still have time to kill him? What kind of training will a teacher have to make that assessment? How will this gun policy affect the liability insurance status of the school and the city or county that operates the schools? How will the police feel about arming teachers? I remember when the Secret Service didn’t think it was such a good idea to let people bring guns to the Republican Convention. This is another meaningless talking point, like the 2000 mile border wall and the Harvest Box O’ Foodstuufs. Makes for good talking if you’ve got an audience that’s not inclined to think too hard but it doesn’t stand up to any real scrutiny from a practical point of view. If you arm 20% of the country’s 3.5 million teachers, that’s 700,000 armed teachers and 700,000 guns inside the school. Even if 99% of the teachers can carry a gun all day for 180 school days without incident ( And I think I’m being generous in my assessment of the weapons handling capabilities of teachers), that’s still going to be 70 incidents a year. What will be the protocol if a teacher misplaces a gun or if a gun goes missing? Will the whole school go through some sort of evacuation and lock-down? Some teachers lose their keys every 5 minutes. And does the teacher have to wear the gun strapped to their body or can they hide it in their desk. Will the teachers be trained in what to do if someone tries to grab their gun? But these guys have President Trump as their thought leader. And he thinks guns in schools are a good idea because John Kelly is a badass and if he were in a school with a gun, no one would dare shoot it up. Ladies and Gentlemen, the President of the United States: > **[Trump says John Kelly would stop mass shootings if he was a teacher with a...](https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/trump-says-john-kelly-stop-mass-shootings-teacher-gun-bullets-flying/)** > > President Donald Trump on Thursday insisted that White House Chief of Staff John Kelly could personally stop any school shooting if he were a teacher armed with a gun.At a roundtable discussion about school violence, Trump noted Kelly was a four star... This is just a fantasy from people who’ve seen to many movies. John McClanes and Jack Bauers don’t exist in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/332 "2018-02-23T06:22:08Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > This is just a fantasy from people who’ve seen to many movies. John McClanes and Jack Bauers don’t exist in real life. Oh, they exist, they’re just employed in fields other than teaching school. (Unless that school is a military or police training course.) Fuck it, if there’s someone out there who is a formally-trained and combat-tested veteran with a clean psych evaluation and a CCW, who just happened to go into teaching as a second career, and he wants to carry in the school, I wouldn’t really consider that to be objectionable and he might actually have a chance of stopping a shooter. But how many of these guys are out there? The majority of the teachers seem to vehemently oppose the heavy responsibility of having to carry a gun on the job, and of those who _would_ want to do it, something tells me a lot of them would have a greatly inflated sense of their own tactical abilities, and would be more likely to fuck everything up than save the day if they were ever truly put to the test. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/333 "2018-02-23T07:45:06Z")
[You mean like this guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-Qdx6vky0)? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/334 "2018-02-23T08:06:51Z")
How long will it be before just one of 3 and half million people get so depressed, or stressed or emotionally messed up divorce or workplace issues, they shoot their own class of children? Surely you guys must know this is societal-level insanity. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/335 "2018-02-23T08:59:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Where was that, if you don’t mind sharing? Japan. And contrary to popular opinion, people get into fights rather often. There are stabbings, beatings, and other forms of violence, but the chances of being gunned down are rather slim. The same could be said of most of the rest of the industrialized world. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/336 "2018-02-23T09:15:24Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Japan. > > And contrary to popular opinion, people get into fights rather often. There are stabbings, beatings, and other forms of violence, but the chances of being gunned down are rather slim. The same could be said of most of the rest of the industrialized world. Quite similar to Australia. The rate of violent crime is actually slightly higher than in the States, but the death toll is considerably less. [See chart #7. And](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts)read the whole article. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/337 "2018-02-23T09:20:49Z")
The armed security guard, a trained deputy with the police force, I believe, did nothing to stop this latest shooting, most probably because he knew there was nothing he could do with his handgun up against a rampaging teen with an AR-15 (his testicular fortitude notwithstanding) - but at the first report of gunfire the history teacher is suppose to shoulder-roll into firing position and take down the perpetrator with a head-shot. Sure thing, Deadpool. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/338 "2018-02-23T09:50:13Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > How long will it be before just one of 3 and half million people get so depressed, or stressed or emotionally messed up divorce or workplace issues, they shoot their own class of children? > Surely you guys must know this is societal-level insanity. Are you talking about teachers? Are you asking how long will it be before a teacher shoots up their own class? Do you imagine that the rule telling them they have to leave their gun at home is going to be a serious obstacle if / when that day comes? To make the point clear: we’re not talking about whether to allow teachers to _own_ firearms. Many of them already do. We’re merely discussing whether they should be allowed to carry them with them while working. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/339 "2018-02-23T11:04:45Z")
In my area there has been a serious upgrade and remodeling of schools and many of those are to address serious security concerns. Take our local middle school for example. It used to be that when you entered the building you entered a hallway and the main office was down the hallway on the left. However nothing said you couldnt turn right or go straight. Now they remodeled it so ALL people entering must go thru a central point where they are checked. At the elementary school all visitors have to be buzzed in. So really improving the physical security goes a long way. Now how the heck does one secure some of these massive schools of 3,000 with numerous buildings and is more like a college I dont know. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/340 "2018-02-23T12:39:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Are you talking about teachers? Are you asking how long will it be before a teacher shoots up their own class? Do you imagine that the rule telling them they have to leave their gun at home is going to be a serious obstacle if / when that day comes? > > To make the point clear: we’re not talking about whether to allow teachers to _own_ firearms. Many of them already do. We’re merely discussing whether they should be allowed to carry them with them while working. If a teacher snaps suddenly, would you rather their firearm be right at their side and loaded, or at home in a gun safe? I had one teacher that reacted to a snippy remark from a student by throw chairs around and cracking a chalkboard with his fist, and I shudder to imagine what would have happened if he had been armed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927.md?page=18)