# Arming teachers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927 "2018-02-16T14:48:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/21 "2018-02-16T16:26:51Z")
I could easily arm my entire department from my gun safe. But there are teachers at every school who can’t even secure their _keys_. We want to give them _guns_? Stupidest idea I’ve ever heard. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/22 "2018-02-16T16:29:11Z")
I’m trying to imagine Mother García getting a gun. My head hurts. The main reason she didn’t have discipline problems is that even at age 7 we felt like being nasty to her would be bullying. I’m trying to imagine Mother Frauca needing a gun. I get the giggles. The woman could have disciplined flying bullets into stopping the hell up and forming a proper queue. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/23 "2018-02-16T16:36:14Z")
Here is my proposal - Allow those with CCW who wish to carry, carry and remove the prohibition on carrying on school grounds by staff with the permission of the school leadership (principal, school board, etc.) This obviates the cost question - those who want to will, and those who don’t want to, won’t. As for training, the training is established via the same means as training is done for regular licensing. Individual schools could require additional training and condition their approval on that if they wish. The approach by individuals should generally be run, hide, fight - in that order. That applies everywhere, not just at schools. This proposal is not in any way connected with an attempt to reduce or mitigate school shootings, but rather a continuation of individual liberty. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/24 "2018-02-16T16:38:19Z")
Many school districts can’t even afford basic school supplies - where in the hell will they get the money to buy a Glock for every teacher? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/25 "2018-02-16T16:45:02Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Here is my proposal - Allow those with CCW who wish to carry, carry and remove the prohibition on carrying on school grounds by staff with the permission of the school leadership (principal, school board, etc.) This obviates the cost question - those who want to will, and those who don’t want to, won’t. As for training, the training is established via the same means as training is done for regular licensing. Individual schools could require additional training and condition their approval on that if they wish. > > The approach by individuals should generally be run, hide, fight - in that order. That applies everywhere, not just at schools. > > This proposal is not in any way connected with an attempt to reduce or mitigate school shootings, but rather a continuation of individual liberty. It sounds to me that what you’re saying isn’t really any different than the current situation, with the exception of relaxing rules to carry weapons on school grounds. I honestly don’t see how that would work. You still didn’t address the issue of cost. If teachers and school districts are strapped for cash anyway, you’re saying it’s still up to the teachers to solve the problem themselves. Do I understand what you’re saying correctly? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/26 "2018-02-16T16:46:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > For armed teachers to be an effective deterrent there would have to be enough of them spread out over the campus to make it difficult to avoid them. > > 1. Are there enough teachers that want to be armed when in school? > 2. Who will pay for the proper training? > 3. What _is_ the proper training? > 4. Will they be screened to make sure that they _should_ be given such a responsibility, the way police are supposed to be screened and, if so, who will pay for this screening? One more thing. Initial training is not enough, there has to be regular training and practice. Who is going to pay for that? A teacher with ten year old training is about as trained as one with none at all. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/27 "2018-02-16T16:58:42Z")
And will teachers be getting a raise, since they’re now also supposed to be armed security guards? Of course, this might be the only way Republicans will be willing to give teachers a raise… ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/28 "2018-02-16T17:03:14Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > It sounds to me that what you’re saying isn’t really any different than the current situation, with the exception of relaxing rules to carry weapons on school grounds. Yes. If schools or districts want to gather information on which of their employees is carrying, that seems like a reasonable concession. > [@](#): > > I honestly don’t see how that would work. > > You still didn’t address the issue of cost. If teachers and school districts are strapped for cash anyway, you’re saying it’s still up to the teachers to solve the problem themselves. > > Do I understand what you’re saying correctly? More or less. Cost wouldn’t be a problem anymore than it currently is a problem for teachers to acquire their own weapons. Plenty of teachers have firearms. A subset would want to carry if they were allowed. I think they should be allowed. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/29 "2018-02-16T17:05:40Z")
Remember when Joe Arpaio sent a bunch of armed weirdos to protect schools? > **[Joe Arpaio hired a child-sex offender for armed “posse”](https://www.salon.com/2013/02/13/joe_arpaio_hired_a_convicted_child_sex_criminal_for_armed_school_%E2%80%9Cposse%E2%80%9D/)** > > After Sandy Hook, the Arizona sheriff sent his poorly vetted, gun-toting group to patrol local schools ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/30 "2018-02-16T17:11:36Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > but we want Mrs. Crumblebum to take out a sociopath between decorating her classroom with hearts for Valentine’s Day. What if she decorates the classroom _with_ the sociopath? Paints the walls with his brains and such. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/31 "2018-02-16T17:12:29Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Yes. If schools or districts want to gather information on which of their employees is carrying, that seems like a reasonable concession. > More or less. Cost wouldn’t be a problem anymore than it currently is a problem for teachers to acquire their own weapons. Plenty of teachers have firearms. A subset would want to carry if they were allowed. I think they should be allowed. What about screening them the way police are screened(or supposed to be screened) before _they_ are allowed to carry while on duty? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/32 "2018-02-16T17:23:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What about screening them the way police are screened(or supposed to be screened) before _they_ are allowed to carry while on duty? Because screened cops are stellar examples of firearms restraint and judgment. Be better off hiring cops to do the teaching (which would also suck). ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/33 "2018-02-16T17:31:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What about screening them the way police are screened(or supposed to be screened) before _they_ are allowed to carry while on duty? Presumably the schools are screening their employees. And obtaining a CCW permit generally requires a criminal background check, and often some training. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/34 "2018-02-16T17:45:09Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > More or less. Cost wouldn’t be a problem anymore than it currently is a problem for teachers to acquire their own weapons. Plenty of teachers have firearms. A subset would want to carry if they were allowed. I think they should be allowed. You might be surprised to learn [at least 18 states do allow teachers to carry](http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/14/16468754-guns-already-allowed-in-schools-with-little-restriction-in-many-states) with permission from the school board and/or principal or other such thing. Many of them blue states too (California is one). It [hasn’t seemed to help](https://www.vox.com/a/mass-shootings-sandy-hook) much. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/35 "2018-02-16T17:45:49Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Presumably the schools are screening their employees. And obtaining a CCW permit generally requires a criminal background check, and often some training. Police departments do not screen applicants for their suitability as teachers-Likewise, I doubt education departments screen _their_ applicants for their suitability as armed security officers. BTW, when/if you received your CCW training, how many hours did you get on protecting the public under extremely high pressure situations? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/36 "2018-02-16T17:54:01Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > You might be surprised to learn [at least 18 states do allow teachers to carry](http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/14/16468754-guns-already-allowed-in-schools-with-little-restriction-in-many-states) with permission from the school board and/or principal or other such thing. Many of them blue states too (California is one). I’m aware. My understanding is that the take rate is very low, probably because the approving authority in those 18 states don’t often grant approval. Personally, I’d be fine if the CCW is sufficient and the school is only involved on an informational basis, not acting as a gatekeeper. And as I said, it’s not to mitigate the risk of school shootings. Teachers carrying combined with school shootings are infrequent enough that it’d be hard to suss out the impact. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/37 "2018-02-16T17:59:26Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > You might be surprised to learn [at least 18 states do allow teachers to carry](http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/14/16468754-guns-already-allowed-in-schools-with-little-restriction-in-many-states) with permission from the school board and/or principal or other such thing. Many of them blue states too (California is one). > > It [hasn’t seemed to help](https://www.vox.com/a/mass-shootings-sandy-hook) much. My understanding is that overwhelmingly schools choose to not allow teachers to carry, even though the legislature gives them the option. In Utah (and I think we’re unique in this respect), the schools aren’t given a veto. Teachers can go out and obtain a CCW permit and carry while on the job, and the school cannot prevent them. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/38 "2018-02-16T18:00:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Police departments do not screen applicants for their suitability as teachers-Likewise, I doubt education departments screen _their_ applicants for their suitability as armed security officers. BTW, when/if you received your CCW training, how many hours did you get on protecting the public under extremely high pressure situations? Utah’s required class runs about four hours. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/39 "2018-02-16T18:03:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Utah’s required class runs about four hours. What (briefly) does that training entail? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/40 "2018-02-16T18:08:03Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Utah’s required class runs about four hours. A partial answer that is worse than no answer at all. Again: > [@](#): > > BTW, when/if you received your CCW training, _how many hours did you get on protecting the public under extremely high pressure situations?_ (italics mine) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927.md?page=3)