# Arming teachers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927 "2018-02-16T14:48:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/401 "2018-02-24T07:55:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Utah allows law-abiding teachers to get a CCW permit and carry in school (and has done so for many years). The “predictably disastrous real-world results” have largely failed to materialize here. Why do you think that is? Perhaps because living in Utah instills such hopeless despair that even violence seems futile? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/402 "2018-02-24T13:43:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Utah allows law-abiding teachers to get a CCW permit and carry in school (and has done so for many years). The “predictably disastrous real-world results” have largely failed to materialize here. Why do you think that is? Can you see any difference between a few law-abiding teachers carrying, and encouraging (or requiring) millions of additional teachers to bring guns to school? Any difference at all? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/403 "2018-02-24T14:30:14Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Can you see any difference between a few law-abiding teachers carrying, and encouraging (or requiring) millions of additional teachers to bring guns to school? Any difference at all? Even if some teachers, this week, think arming themselves is a good idea, do you really think it will last? Carrying that gun to school every day will be a burden. You have to keep cleaning it, maintaining it, practicing with it. You can never let it out of your sight or let your consciousness stray to far from it. It reminds of those exercises where they make teenagers take care of an egg for a week. But this isn’t over in a week. It’s every day, day in and day out, There is a psychological component as well. Every morning, when that teacher straps on her holster, she’ll be thinking about how she has to do this because today might be the day when some artillery wielding teen tries to kill her and her students. If I had to go through the exercise every morning of arming myself against the possibility that one of my co-workers might kill me, it probably wouldn’t be long before I decided to go into another line of work. I can see how Mrs. Grundy might think it’s a good idea to arm herself this week. The stories and images are still fresh. But I question how she will feel about it a year from now. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/404 "2018-02-24T16:32:23Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I agree that arming and training the teachers is a vital step. How to pay for it? > > Redirection of federal funds from foreign aid to countries that are our enemies would immediately provide billions of dollars. This money could be block granted to the states to spend on the training. I agree that redirection of funds probably would free up billions of dollars, but is that a wise thing to do? In January, Trump proposed cutting aid to Pakistan in order to punish them: [http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/367705-trump-steps-up-foreign-aid-cuts-as-foreign-policy-tool](http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/367705-trump-steps-up-foreign-aid-cuts-as-foreign-policy-tool) > [@](#): > > The Trump administration moved on Thursday to suspend security assistance to Pakistan, signaling a new attempt to pressure Islamabad to crack down on terrorist networks operating in the country. (I realize this particular link to Pakistan isn’t directly relevant to arming teachers, but it is relevant to redirecting funds.) Then there can be a backlash to cutting foreign aid (from The Hill article): > [@](#): > > “Threatening aid cutoffs as a way of affecting behavior is usually unproductive, at least in the short term,” Dobbins told The Hill, adding that the long-term impacts may or may not be more effective. > > “I think that these kinds of threats, especially when they’re demonstrated to be ineffective, tend to diminish [the United States’] influence over time,” he said. Then is the question of block grants. Since the grants can be used for virtually any purpose, doesn’t mean that the money will be spent arming teachers, or at least improving schools. Consider this source: [https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R40486.pdf](https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R40486.pdf) > [@](#): > > Block grant critics argue that block grants can undermine the achievement of national objectives > and can be used as a “backdoor” means to reduce government spending on domestic issues. For > example, opponents of converting Medicaid into a block grant argue that “block granting > Medicaid is simply code for deep, arbitrary cuts in support to the most vulnerable seniors, > individuals with disabilities, and low-income children.” Block grant critics also argue that the > decentralized nature of block grants makes it difficult to measure block grant performance and to > hold state and local government officials accountable for their decisions. In other words, I’m not convinced your post is a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/405 "2018-02-24T16:41:54Z")
Some posters have mentioned the mental health of teachers, which is a valid point. Several sources point to teaching as incredibly stressful: > **[Top 10 Most Stressful Jobs in America](https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/be_your_best/page/top-10-stressful-jobs-america-14355387)** > > Everyone who earns a wage pays for it with stress. What jobs carry the most? > [@](#): > > 4: Teacher Many people think that teachers have good working schedules, but teachers take a lot of work home since there are always lessons to plan, papers to grade and records to keep. The pay isn’t much compared to professions with similar educational requirements, and teachers are under constant scrutiny to improve test scores year after year. > **[Teachers Are Stressed, And That Should Stress Us All](https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/12/30/505432203/teachers-are-stressed-and-that-should-stress-us-all)** > > When educators are buried under problems beyond their control, here's a solution: Get mindful. > [@](#): > > Forty-six percent of teachers say they feel high daily stress. That’s on par with nurses and physicians. And roughly half of teachers agree with this statement: “The stress and disappointments involved in teaching at this school aren’t really worth it.” > **[How this Founder is Addressing the Problem Nobody Wants to Talk About in...](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-this-founder-is-addressing-the-problem-nobody-wants_b_59c3ba04e4b0ffc2dedb5b4d)** > > How this Founder is Addressing the Problem Nobody Wants to Talk About in Education > [@](#): > > According to NPR, teacher attrition is high, and university enrollment in teacher preparation programs has fallen 35% over the past five years — a decrease of nearly 240,000 teachers in all. According to the NEA, some sources estimate that 50% of teachers who currently work in classrooms across the country will retire or leave the profession over the next five to seven years. > **[61% of Teachers Stressed Out, 58% Say Mental Health Is Not Good in New...](https://www.the74million.org/61-of-teachers-stressed-out-58-say-mental-health-is-not-good-in-new-national-survey/)** > > A majority of American teachers feel stressed at work, according to a new survey from the American Federation of Teachers — and the number citing poor mental health has jumped alarmingly over the past two years. Experts say resultant costs in human... > [@](#): > > A majority of American teachers feel stressed at work, according to a new survey from the American Federation of Teachers — and the number citing poor mental health has jumped alarmingly over the past two years. Experts say resultant costs in human resources and health care spending could amount to billions of dollars. > **[Survey: Teachers' mental health declining amid job stress](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/10/30/survey-teachers-mental-health-declining-amid-job-stress/811577001/)** > > A new survey of educators finds that more than half say their mental health is suffering. > [@](#): > > A long list of anxieties — around school budget cuts, bullying, coarse political discourse and the shaky status of immigrant students — is taking a toll on teachers, a new survey shows, with more educators now saying their mental health is suffering than just two years earlier. Add the burden of carrying a gun, the costs of training (which this thread suggests would be borne by the teachers themselves), and the mental stress and possible PTSD of actually shooting and killing another human being, and you have truly lit the fuse. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/406 "2018-02-24T16:49:39Z")
Let’s also look at arming teachers from another point of view: from veterans themselves. > **[Guess Who Thinks Arming Teachers Is A Really, Really Bad Idea? Military...](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/verabergengruen/combat-veterans-think-arming-teachers-is-a-really-really)** > > “How to stand your ground when an aggressor is trying to kill you — that’s not something that comes naturally to people.” > [@](#): > > “There is a gulf between being taught how to handle a weapon, and learning to fight. Those are two distinct things,” Brandon Friedman, a former Army captain who was deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan and later served in the Obama administration, told BuzzFeed News. “And learning how to fight, how to stand your ground when an aggressor is trying to kill you, that’s not something that comes naturally to people.” > **[Can We Really Expect Teachers to Act Like Soldiers? Three Veterans Weigh In.](https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a18698737/what-veterans-say-about-arming-teachers/)** > > Sometimes training isn't enough, because humans—and even soldiers—are hardwired to stay alive. > [@](#): > > As veterans who’ve experienced combat will tell you, no one ever really knows how he or she will perform in a situation like this until they get there. Acting like a swaggering action hero is not something many people can do, no matter how much they fantasize about it. Arming teachers is a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/407 "2018-02-24T17:03:27Z")
Maybe instead of arming teachers, an alternative solution would be to require each classroom to have a secondary exit in case of emergency. So rather than being trapped in the classroom, they can remove a window or whatever and flee the school. Not only will it help for a shooter situation, but it could be used in case of fire or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/408 "2018-02-24T17:06:39Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Maybe instead of arming teachers, an alternative solution would be to require each classroom to have a secondary exit in case of emergency. So rather than being trapped in the classroom, they can remove a window or whatever and flee the school. Not only will it help for a shooter situation, but it could be used in case of fire or something like that. 1. The cost. 2. The greater possibility that students would be popping those widows at a much higher rate then they would be used to run from intruders. 3.The need for fire escapes for every one of those escape windows that are above the first floor. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/409 "2018-02-24T17:11:17Z")
Will every one of you who claim to support all these school changes pledge to support all the school levies that will be needed to pay for them? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/410 "2018-02-24T17:11:46Z")
Fundamentally, arming teachers is a “solution” that treats a symptom, not a cause. Restricting access to guns, banning guns that are only useful to kill many human beings, limiting magazine capacities, banning bump stocks – is treating the underlying cause of the carnage. I’m sick of kowtowing to people who advance the false notion that their rights under the 2nd Amendment include access to any and all weapons, just so they can fetishize guns, indulge a hobby and target shoot on the weekends with AR-15s and the like. It’s nuts. Self defense is one thing. Pretending to be Rambo is another. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/411 "2018-02-24T17:24:09Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m definitely interested, but let me clarify some things that might help you: There are general-purpose CCW classes offered all throughout Utah, and they have been for many years. Undoubtedly some number of the students of those classes are, in their day-jobs, teachers. > > Aside from that, there have been some specialized classes, offered to school staff and educators (and eligible college students), often free of charge, in an effort to enable them to protect themselves and their schools. These have certainly become more popular in recent years, and they might well have had just “hundreds” of participants (personally I’d guess the total of these classes is in the thousands already - [this one class scheduled for March 3 already has almost 600 signed up](http://kutv.com/news/local/utah-educators-offered-free-concealed-weapon-course)), but - and this is the important part - **it would be a rather obvious mistake to conclude that only the participants in this latter group represent the sum total of all armed teachers in Utah**. > > As for your “5-6 years” guess, [this CNN article from 2012](https://www.cnn.com/2012/12/27/us/utah-teachers-weapons/) said: “For 12 years, Utah educators have been able to …”. That would put it at more like 18 years. I spent longer than I should have looking for that link, but we’ll just go with what you linked for now. It says "only a small fraction do bring guns into their workplace. " Now, that’s from a while back, so maybe it is higher now. Almost by definition, we cannot know, as it seems that they don’t have to report to anyone that they are carrying. What percentage do you think it is? Do you think it is anywhere near the 20% that is being called for? Of course, in looking for stats, instead, I found that Utah is having severe issues [just having teachers at all](https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865675536/Teacher-turnover-in-Utah-exceeded-55-percent-over-8-years-Turnover-for-young-teachers-73.html), which is why they are[lowering the standards needed to be a teacher in the state.](http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/teaching_now/2016/06/teaching_degree_utah.html) > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I can see how Mrs. Grundy might think it’s a good idea to arm herself this week. The stories and images are still fresh. But I question how she will feel about it a year from now. To be fair, if we have school shootings on a regular basis, that’ll keep it fresh. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/412 "2018-02-24T17:36:07Z")
Trump wants to use former military personnel as teachers: > **[Trump: Give Weapons to Gun-Trained Teachers](https://www.newsweek.com/trump-says-arming-teachers-who-have-military-experience-would-be-great-815962)** > > The U.S. president also said he would push to end sales of bump stocks, raise age limits and bring about comprehensive background checks. > [@](#): > > President Donald Trump said he supports arming teachers who have “military or special training experience” to keep campuses safe in the event of a school shooting like the one in Parkland, Florida last week, which left 17 teachers and students dead. A _potential_ problem with that is the military has lowered qualifications for entrance: > **[Army is accepting more low-quality recruits, giving waivers for marijuana to...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/10/10/army-accepting-more-low-quality-recruits-giving-waivers-marijuana-hit-targets/750844001/)** > > With a goal for 80,000 new soldiers, the Army is accepting more marginally qualified soldier, granting more waivers for marijuana use. > [@](#): > > Faced with increasing demand for new soldiers, the Army has reached deeper into the pool of marginally qualified recruits, offered hundreds of millions in bonuses and relaxed the process for granting waivers for marijuana use. > > The hazard of accepting recruits with poor qualifications was highlighted by a case from 2006 in which an Iraqi girl was raped and her family killed by soldiers, one of whom required waivers for minor criminal activity and poor educational background to join the Army. I’m not saying (now) that this _is_ a problem, but it certainly should be a concern. Former military as teachers isn’t the panacea that Trump implies. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/413 "2018-02-24T17:47:39Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > I agree that redirection of funds probably would free up billions of dollars, but is that a wise thing to do? It’s not just unwise, it’s logically ridiculous. “Let’s free up money to arm teachers by cutting foreign aid” is a wonderful example of an intellectually dishonest argument. It’s an obvious false dilemma. If the government of the United States is not getting value for its money in aid to Pakistan, then it should stop giving aid to Pakistan, or alter the terms of the agreement. It doesn’t matter if teachers have to be armed or not; the value of sending money to Pakistan is something that is correctly judged on the return on that investment. The argument to find teacher-gun money (what a stupid idea) by stripping aid from a foreign nation isn’t logical; it is meant to cover the teacher-gun idea by appealing to racism. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/414 "2018-02-24T17:48:49Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I spent longer than I should have looking for that link, but we’ll just go with what you linked for now. > > It says "only a small fraction do bring guns into their workplace. " Now, that’s from a while back, so maybe it is higher now. Almost by definition, we cannot know, as it seems that they don’t have to report to anyone that they are carrying. > > What percentage do you think it is? Do you think it is anywhere near the 20% that is being called for? … Currently about [1/4 of a million Utah residents have active CFPs](https://bci.utah.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2018/01/2017Q4.pdf), out of an [adult population of roughly 2 million](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/UT). That’s about 1 in 8. Perhaps it’s a little bit lower among teachers (more women, somewhat less self-defense-oriented mindset) than the general population, so my WAG would be ~10%, or roughly half of what Trump mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/415 "2018-02-24T18:49:34Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Currently about [1/4 of a million Utah residents have active CFPs](https://bci.utah.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2018/01/2017Q4.pdf), out of an [adult population of roughly 2 million](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/UT). That’s about 1 in 8. Perhaps it’s a little bit lower among teachers (more women, somewhat less self-defense-oriented mindset) than the general population, so my WAG would be ~10%, or roughly half of what Trump mentioned. So, you are saying that you think there are about 2800 teachers in Utah with a CFP(why cfp, and not CCW?). Like I said, impossible to know the numbers, because they don’t have to tell anyone whether they are carrying. But you are assuming that everyone with a CFP will be carrying in their classroom at all times to get to those numbers. I don’t know Utah culture, but I know teachers around here that have a CCW, that would never consider taking their gun to school, even if allowed or even encouraged. But, assuming that that is the case, and that there are 2800 teachers in Utah schools carrying a gun every single day, we just need to increase that to about 620,000 across the US. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/416 "2018-02-24T19:00:25Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, you are saying that you think there are about 2800 teachers in Utah with a CFP… I think it’s a guess with a pretty wide margin of error. I think it’s reasonable to guess that there are “a few thousand” school faculty and staff with CFPs. I don’t nave any way of knowing how many carry every day. I think it’s safe to assume it’s something more than 0% and less than 100%. Beyond that, I don’t think I’d hazard a guess. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > … why cfp, and not CCW? … CCW is a rather generic term. CFP is the Utah-specific term for the license (a Concealed Firearm Permit). Other states will call it different things too (CHL - Concealed Handgun License, etc). Apologies for switching acronyms in the middle of our discussion, they’re basically synonymous. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > … But, assuming that that is the case, and that there are 2800 teachers in Utah schools carrying a gun every single day, we just need to increase that to about 620,000 across the US. I don’t think there’s anything magical about the number 620,000 (nor do I think it’s very realistic). If it were legal everywhere, I suspect you could get some high-single-digit % of school faculty and staff to voluntarily carry across the country. Perhaps more if there were actually bonuses for doing so, but I consider the likelihood of that happening to be rather remote. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/417 "2018-02-24T19:34:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think it’s a guess with a pretty wide margin of error. I think it’s reasonable to guess that there are “a few thousand” school faculty and staff with CFPs. I don’t nave any way of knowing how many carry every day. I think it’s safe to assume it’s something more than 0% and less than 100%. Beyond that, I don’t think I’d hazard a guess. Between 0 and 100%. I’ll take those odds. 🙂 > [@](#): > > CCW is a rather generic term. CFP is the Utah-specific term for the license (a Concealed Firearm Permit). Other states will call it different things too (CHL - Concealed Handgun License, etc). Apologies for switching acronyms in the middle of our discussion, they’re basically synonymous. That’s cool, wasn’t really knocking you, just the hodgepodge of different laws and terms we get to see across the nation. I did have to look up CFP real quick just to make sure it meant the same thing, though. > [@](#): > > I don’t think there’s anything magical about the number 620,000 (nor do I think it’s very realistic). If it were legal everywhere, I suspect you could get some high-single-digit % of school faculty and staff to voluntarily carry across the country. Perhaps more if there were actually bonuses for doing so, but I consider the likelihood of that happening to be rather remote. The 620,000 is 20% of teachers, the goal that trump has set. I suppose it would be a higher number if he was meaning to include support staff and administration. Do you think it is a remote likelihood that teachers would carry to get the bonus, or that the bonus would be offered? I think the first is probable, and it concerns me a bit. We don’t pay teachers enough, and if the only way for them to get a raise is to start carrying a gun in school, many will, and I don’t know if that is a good reason. I’ll agree on the second, as it seems communities really don’t like supporting the people teaching their children. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/418 "2018-02-24T19:46:44Z")
Concealed carry pretty much means pistols. Handguns. Against a madman armed with a military-grade weapon. There are words for that kind of behavior. “Courageous” is one, “stupid” is another. Long guns are “aim”, pistols are “general direction”. Most likely result: teacher fires at shooter, shooter kills teacher. I don’t think this is a good idea. Mmmm, no. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/419 "2018-02-24T20:07:39Z")
Just to follow up on **HurricaneDitka** ’s response to my remark, though it’s already been amply rebutted by others: No, Utah’s allowing qualified gun-owning teachers to voluntarily concealed-carry on school grounds if they want to is not at all the same as a nationwide **policy** of deliberately arming a large percentage of teachers as a purported remedy for gun violence in schools. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/420 "2018-02-24T20:19:51Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > … The 620,000 is 20% of teachers, the goal that trump has set. I suppose it would be a higher number if he was meaning to include support staff and administration. > > Do you think it is a remote likelihood that teachers would carry to get the bonus, or that the bonus would be offered? > > I think the first is probable, and it concerns me a bit. We don’t pay teachers enough, and if the only way for them to get a raise is to start carrying a gun in school, many will, and I don’t know if that is a good reason. > > I’ll agree on the second, as it seems communities really don’t like supporting the people teaching their children. Yes, I think we’re on exactly the same page on this point. I think it’s unlikely that bonuses are given to teachers for carrying at work. If they were, I suspect some would carry primarily for the purpose of receiving the extra pay, and I’d rather not have that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927.md?page=22)