# Arming teachers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927 "2018-02-16T14:48:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/441 "2018-02-25T16:16:20Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > This is an interesting site > > [United States school shootings and firearm incidents, 1990-present - Ballotpedia](https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_school_shootings,_1990-present#Northeast) > > The following states have never had any form of school shooting incidents, period. > > Delaware > Idaho > Kansas > Massachusetts > New Hampshire > New Jersey > Montana > Rhode Island > West Virginia > South Dakota > Rhode Island I was surprised to see my home state of Kansas on this list, because there was an incident in 1985 in which a school principal was killed by a junior high student. Then I realized that this site chronicles incidents since 1990. This Wikipedia [page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States) purportedly lists all school shootings in the U.S. since 1764. I would suspect that the above list would be shorter if all shootings in the last 250 years were included. This clarification is not meant to detract from the original point of Ann’s post, which was that Ditka’s premise is flawed. I pointed out the same flaw in a previous post. Still waiting for a response. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/442 "2018-02-25T16:31:31Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > I was surprised to see my home state of Kansas on this list, because there was an incident in 1985 in which a school principal was killed by a junior high student. Then I realized that this site chronicles incidents since 1990. > > This Wikipedia [page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States) purportedly lists all school shootings in the U.S. since 1764. I would suspect that the above list would be shorter if all shootings in the last 250 years were included. > > This clarification is not meant to detract from the original point of Ann’s post, which was that Ditka’s premise is flawed. I pointed out the same flaw in a previous post. Still waiting for a response. Should have clarified since 1990. I’ll look at the Wiki Page. I suspect Utah will not stand out in any way ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/443 "2018-02-25T16:57:11Z")
If I make the same analysis using the Wiki Page the results are pretty much the same. Most states have never had a mass school shooting. Utah is nothing special. I came up with 31 states that never had a mass shooting but I may be off by one or two as I had to look up many incidents to find out what states they happened in. > **[List of school shootings in the United States](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States)** > > List of school shootings in the United States may refer to: I think this page is a better source than the one I used earlier as most of the incidents from my earlier source were not mass shootings, they included things like non-student suicides in school parking lots. Or a Utah incident where a student was shot in a park near the school. And my list included all incidents with multiple fatalities ( which was only 2 in many cases ). But the Wiki Page counts college incidents. Including Kent State, which does not bolster any sort of good guy with a gun argument. In any case, the end result is the same. Most states have not had a fatal mass shooting in their schools, ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/444 "2018-02-25T17:00:05Z")
A former US Marine is now a school teacher in West Virginia, says, “I don’t want a gun in my classroom”. [NYT Article](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/24/opinion/sunday/marine-gun-classroom.html). > [@article](#): > > “I will immodestly state that among professors in the United States, I am almost certainly one of the best shooters. But I would never bring a weapon into a classroom. The presence of a firearm is always an invitation to violence. Weapons have no place in a learning environment.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/445 "2018-02-25T20:09:39Z")
I have yet to meet a person who has actual military training who doesn’t think arming teachers is a ridiculously horrible idea. Including myself. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/446 "2018-02-25T20:58:51Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I have yet to meet a person who has actual military training who doesn’t think arming teachers is a ridiculously horrible idea. Including myself. I suspect that tells us a lot more about the relatively narrow range of people you’ve met than any sort of universal truth about people with actual military training. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/447 "2018-02-25T21:48:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I suspect that tells us a lot more about the relatively narrow range of people you’ve met than any sort of universal truth about people with actual military training. Don’t worry about him. You should be more concerned about what the latest round of gun threads tell _us_ about you. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/448 "2018-02-25T21:56:35Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Don’t worry about him. You should be more concerned about what the latest round of gun threads tell _us_ about you. I’m not. Let’s try to stay on topic. Sheriff Richard K. Jones of Butler County, Ohio has actual military training as a combat engineer and wants to see armed teachers in school. [x.com](https://mobile.twitter.com/butlersheriff/status/965268479594172422) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/449 "2018-02-25T22:04:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m not. Let’s try to stay on topic. Sheriff Richard K. Jones of Butler County, Ohio has actual military training as a combat engineer and wants to see armed teachers in school. [x.com](https://mobile.twitter.com/butlersheriff/status/965268479594172422) Okay. That’s one. You win. Or should we call it a draw? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/450 "2018-02-25T22:08:29Z")
N/M. I don’t even know why I’m bothering to re-engage. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/451 "2018-02-25T22:20:40Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I have yet to meet a person who has actual military training who doesn’t think arming teachers is a ridiculously horrible idea. Including myself. Out of the ones I personally know, whose opinions on the matter I’ve heard, this would hold true: Former USMC infantryman, post-Vietnam era; also a well regarded Martial Arts instructor and a CCW holder; political centrist; thinks it’s a stupid idea. Former USMC infantryman, volunteered for Vietnam and was awarded a Purple Heart; politically far left, Sanders supporter; thinks it’s an incredibly stupid idea. Former Army officer, served in Vietnam and earned a Bronze Star; currently a professor; politically center-left; thinks it’s a ridiculously stupid idea. The one outlier: former Army helicopter pilot who served from Vietnam all the way through to the very beginning of the second Iraq war and retired as a Major; extremely eclectic politically (and in every other way), leans far left on some issues and far right on others. He thinks it’s a good idea, but I don’t think he believes ALL teachers should literally be armed, just that those who already carry should be allowed to. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/452 "2018-02-25T22:37:51Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I have yet to meet a person who has actual military training who doesn’t think arming teachers is a ridiculously horrible idea. Including myself. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m not. Let’s try to stay on topic. Sheriff Richard K. Jones of Butler County, Ohio has actual military training as a combat engineer and wants to see armed teachers in school. [x.com](https://mobile.twitter.com/butlersheriff/status/965268479594172422) I would put the opinion of those with decades of military training and experience, along with experience in a classroom, over someone with only 2 years in the military and no experience in the classroom. Our good Sheriff Jones wants to be the next Arpaio, and is more interested in saying highly controversial things to get himself into the national spotlight than he is in actually solving the problems. It will be interesting to see if he continues getting support in 2020. He’s fairly popular with the very conservative population of Butler, but there are quite a number of parents in the school districts of the county that are very vocal in their disagreement with him on putting guns in the classrooms with their kids. ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/453 "2018-02-25T22:42:50Z")
It’s not a problem with guns; it’s a mental health issue. Teachers are immune to developing mental illness! So it’s totally cool if we arm them. Also, we’re [cutting healthcare wherever possible](http://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/2128555/32-million-americans-lost-health-insurance-donald), and we [removed restrictions on people the courts declared mentally incompetent to handle money, which used to prevent them from buying guns.](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/28/517799119/trump-repeals-rule-designed-to-block-gun-sales-to-certain-mentally-ill-people) MAGA! ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/454 "2018-02-26T00:58:57Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > Out of the ones I personally know, whose opinions on the matter I’ve heard, this would hold true: > > Former USMC infantryman, post-Vietnam era; also a well regarded Martial Arts instructor and a CCW holder; political centrist; thinks it’s a stupid idea. > > Former USMC infantryman, volunteered for Vietnam and was awarded a Purple Heart; politically far left, Sanders supporter; thinks it’s an incredibly stupid idea. > > Former Army officer, served in Vietnam and earned a Bronze Star; currently a professor; politically center-left; thinks it’s a ridiculously stupid idea. > > The one outlier: former Army helicopter pilot who served from Vietnam all the way through to the very beginning of the second Iraq war and retired as a Major; extremely eclectic politically (and in every other way), leans far left on some issues and far right on others. He thinks it’s a good idea, but I don’t think he believes ALL teachers should literally be armed, just that those who already carry should be allowed to. Another heard from since this post: Naval NCO, Senior Chief rank, SEAL Teams 1 and 2, deployed in 80s. Also worked for Blackwater in Pakistan. Also former EMT. Currently retired from the Navy. Definition of a big-hearted, stand-up guy. He is politically eclectic but, when averaged out, a moderate IMO. Believes that teachers with proper training and experience should be allowed and encouraged to CCW at school. Does NOT think that “arming all the teachers” is a realistic solution. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/455 "2018-02-26T01:58:01Z")
^ oh, he also has _very_ harsh words for the police officers who failed to engage the shooter. He said that a teacher who developed a bond with the students and had a “mother hen” mentality towards them - which I take it is fairly common - and who happened to be a trained CCW holder, would be far more likely to risk life and limb to protect them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/456 "2018-02-26T04:12:00Z")
Are there any stats for guns lost /stolen from police each year? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/457 "2018-02-26T13:40:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are there any stats for guns lost /stolen from police each year? I’m not yet seeing the relevance between your question and arming teachers, but from what little research I’ve done so far, the answer is either no, or very little. I did find this: > **[Exclusive: Hundreds of police-issued weapons missing from Bay Area,...](https://extras.mercurynews.com/policeguns/)** > > 944 guns — from Glocks, Sig Sauers and Remingtons to tear gas launchers, sniper and assault rifles — have been lost, stolen or unaccounted for from many law enforcement agencies in the Bay Area and California. A special Bay Area News Group... > [@](#): > > Nine-hundred and forty-four guns. > > From Glocks, Sig Sauers and Remingtons to sniper and assault rifles, some equipped with grenade launchers. > They used to belong to law enforcement officers across California, but a new Bay Area News Group investigation found hundreds of police-issued weapons have been either stolen, lost or can’t be accounted for since 2010, often disappearing onto the streets without a trace. That’s not a lot, at least compared to this: > **[Up to 600,000 guns are stolen every year in the US – that's one every minute](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/21/gun-theft-us-firearm-survey)** > > Data shows thefts of firearms from vehicles are rising in many large cities. One gun swiped from a truck in Atlanta was used in three crimes, including murder > [@](#): > > Up to 600,000 guns are stolen every year in the US – that’s one every minute And from the ATF: [https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/atf-releases-2016-summary-firearms-reported-lost-and-stolen-ffls](https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/atf-releases-2016-summary-firearms-reported-lost-and-stolen-ffls) > [@](#): > > A total of 18,394 lost or stolen firearms were reported nationwide last year from FFLs[Federal Firearms Licensees]. Of those firearms, 9,113 were reported as lost. Firearms are considered lost when an FFL takes a firearm into its inventory and later cannot account for the disposition of the firearm from its inventory during an inventory reconciliation. > > Since CY 2012, there has been significant increases in the number of robberies and burglaries from FFLs, as well as significant increases in the number of firearms stolen during these crimes. The number of FFL burglaries has risen by 48.01% and FFL robberies by 175%. Does any of that help? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/458 "2018-02-26T15:20:40Z")
It pertains to the question of whether armed teachers would be any better than police at securing their weapons. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/459 "2018-02-26T15:24:54Z")
tbh, what’s most worrying is approx. half the teachers can be overpowered by an averagely strong 14-year old male. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/460 "2018-02-26T15:29:38Z")
There are many teachers who believe that talk of money spent to arm teachers could be much better spent on resources instead. [![](https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180226/08a11a98b6f5c4b24f6ab2c6f494c563.jpg) ](https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180226/08a11a98b6f5c4b24f6ab2c6f494c563.jpg) > **[A Teacher Who Survived the Parkland Shooting Just Explained What Would Have...](https://secondnexus.com/news/watch-marjory-stoneman-douglas-high-school-teacher-sarah-lerner-slams-donald-trumps-proposal-arm-teachers)** > > "I don't need a gun, give me the money instead." Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927.md?page=24)