# Arming teachers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927 "2018-02-16T14:48:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/481 "2018-02-26T20:43:58Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Someone on the first or second page mentioned their school board was at least discussing paying for the training. But the cost wasn’t posted. Maybe it was later; I’ve lost track of the thread. . That was I. Sorry I didn’t get back to posting the estimated cost: $2000-$3000 per teacher. Only volunteers would be armed, and nobody knows how many teachers that would be. The board has acknowledged that the district doesn’t have the money, However, the board member who owns a gun shop and is one of those pushing the plan says he’s sure he can get trainers to donate their time. I assume the trainers would be off-duty cops and deputies, but I have no idea. This same board member asked why anyone would want to psych eval a teacher. According to him, there’s no need. Another board member said only a coward runs from a fight. I mention these things so you know what kind of board members we’re dealing with here. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/482 "2018-02-26T20:48:32Z")
Wow ok waaay higher than I estimated. Thanks for checking on that! ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/483 "2018-02-26T20:53:04Z")
I forgot to add that’s for an estimated 20 hours of training. I don’t know if you can assume that’s what teachers would get nationally or that the cost would be the same. ---
**Author:** ![WillReadmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@WillReadmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillReadmore)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/484 "2018-02-26T20:59:19Z")
I don’t agree that the gun shop guy has a solution for training. Training has to be far more than figuring out how to get the safety off and hit a target. Training would have to include everything that goes into managing an active shooter event. It’s not just a matter of opening fire on someone you see with a gun. Target practice doesn’t prepare a teacher to go up against one of his/her students who has an AR-15 in a populated school environment. Beyond that, my daughter is a high school teacher, and her take is that every teacher at her school would oppose this idea of adding more guns to the school environment for a number of reasons. ---
**Author:** ![WillReadmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@WillReadmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillReadmore)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/485 "2018-02-26T21:14:50Z")
That’s 2.5 days. Have you ever attended a 3 day professional training course? We’re talking about a teacher going up against one of their students who has an AR-15 (or whatever) in an environment populated by school kids. Learning to control the gun isn’t good enough - as if 2.5 days would be enough for that. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/486 "2018-02-26T21:15:34Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Money could be spent on identifying, and dealing with, any psychopath who’s going to the school. > > Teachers, and staff members, should pay for their own weapons, ammo, and training. They should get something they can actually use, and learn to use it. Gun control means learning to hit your target. I think you’ve just provided the solution to this entire debate. My district estimated training costs to run about $2000-$3000 per teacher. (They’re hoping to get volunteer trainers.) Tell teachers they’re going to have to pony up that much cash, or even half that much, and even fewer teachers would sign up. Maybe it would be cheaper elsewhere, or maybe every district can find qualified trainers who’ll donate their time. You’d also have to factor in that districts might want teachers to have more than the approx. 20 hours of training my district is looking at. I know Trump has proposed giving armed teachers a bonus, but I haven’t heard where that would come from. . If it covers the cost of training, that might boost numbers a bit. But few districts have that kind of cash. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/487 "2018-02-26T21:37:18Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Gun control means learning to hit your target. [The NYPD’s standard is a hit rate of 18 percent.](http://nation.time.com/2013/09/16/ready-fire-aim-the-science-behind-police-shooting-bystanders/) I’m sure Mrs. Grumby in Social Studies can do better with a little training. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/488 "2018-02-26T21:59:26Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [The NYPD’s standard is a hit rate of 18 percent.](http://nation.time.com/2013/09/16/ready-fire-aim-the-science-behind-police-shooting-bystanders/) I’m sure Mrs. Grumby in Social Studies can do better with a little training. And without an atrocious 12 pound trigger pull weight ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/489 "2018-02-26T22:02:19Z")
> [@WillReadmore](#): > > That’s 2.5 days. Have you ever attended a 3 day professional training course? > > We’re talking about a teacher going up against one of their students who has an AR-15 (or whatever) in an environment populated by school kids. > > Learning to control the gun isn’t good enough - as if 2.5 days would be enough for that. Even when the alternative is just wait until he runs out of ammo? It’s not like we have a choice between having the Social Studies teacher take on the school shooter or have Seal Team 6 do it. If we did, we’d all obviously choose the latter. But we don’t. We have a choice between having the Social Studies teacher take on the school shooter, or everyone just wait until either he runs out of ammo, or the cops show up (and decide to make entrance). ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/490 "2018-02-26T22:10:57Z")
Or we can make sure the shooter doesn’t get the fucking gun in the first place, but what fun would that be, right? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/491 "2018-02-26T22:19:03Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Or we can make sure the shooter doesn’t get the fucking gun in the first place, but what fun would that be, right? I imagine there are several other threads to discuss options along those lines. If you feel one’s missing, or have your own solution you’d like to propose, perhaps starting a new thread with that as the topic would be the appropriate course of action. ---
**Author:** ![WillReadmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@WillReadmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillReadmore)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/492 "2018-02-27T01:25:06Z")
No, this is a false alternative argument. For example, we have the possibility of on site security. And, there’s no reason to believe that other options don’t also exist. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/493 "2018-02-27T06:09:52Z")
Well, there is - literally - a whole world out here of places that offer options other than armed teachers. LOL An entire world. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/494 "2018-02-27T16:48:16Z")
> [@WillReadmore](#): > > No, this is a false alternative argument. > > For example, we have the possibility of on site security. That’s only useful if they actually go in. > [@](#): > > And, there’s no reason to believe that other options don’t also exist. Drones with lasers? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/495 "2018-02-27T16:51:46Z")
Iirc, the go to guys for validation of gun polices is Switzerland - and it turns out that doesn’t make much sense anyhoo. Who’s the go to guys for armed teachers? Those crazy Swiss carry in the classroom? Any folks we know this side off Alpha Centuria? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/496 "2018-02-27T17:18:05Z")
Of course the school librarian would have to use a silencer. We’re fooling ourselves if we think that arming teachers is the answer. How long before one of them decides he can’t take any more from an unruly student? How long before a student jumps a teacher and takes his gun? Do we really think the little old lady teaching history is going to turn into Dirty Harry and outgun a teen with an assault rifle? And if she misses and kills a student in the crossfire, is the school liable? Put this down as just another example of failed thinking from the right. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/497 "2018-02-27T17:19:30Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Iirc, the go to guys for validation of gun polices is Switzerland - and it turns out that doesn’t make much sense anyhoo. Who’s the go to guys for armed teachers? Those crazy Swiss carry in the classroom? > > Any folks we know this side off Alpha Centuria? Utahns. ETA: but they’re hardly the only example. There are some school districts around the country that have tried variations of it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/498 "2018-02-27T17:23:30Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > How long before one of them decides he can’t take any more from an unruly student? Meme of the Day: Student: Teacher, can I go to the bathroom? Teacher (slowly pulls gun out of drawer): I don’t know. Can you? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/499 "2018-02-27T17:26:27Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > … How long before one of them decides he can’t take any more from an unruly student? … I’m not aware of this happening yet in any of the school districts it’s currently allowed. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > … How long before a student jumps a teacher and takes his gun? … Also something I’m not aware of happening in any school districts its currently allowed. Frankly, if I could _pay_ the next school shooter to leave his long gun at home and try this approach, I would. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > … Do we really think the little old lady teaching history is going to turn into Dirty Harry and outgun a teen with an assault rifle? … Stranger things have happened. And, despite your stereotyping, teachers aren’t all ‘old ladies’. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > … And if she misses and kills a student in the crossfire, is the school liable? … I’m pretty sure the school is going to get sued in the aftermath of a school shooting no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/500 "2018-02-27T17:42:40Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Iirc, the go to guys for validation of gun polices is Switzerland - and it turns out that doesn’t make much sense anyhoo. Who’s the go to guys for armed teachers? Those crazy Swiss carry in the classroom? > > Any folks we know this side off Alpha Centuria? [Israel](https://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/21714) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927.md?page=26)