# Arming teachers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927 "2018-02-16T14:48:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/701 "2018-03-04T20:49:19Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > and “no second amendment” ≠ “no guns”, it just means that we can actually develop rational gun policies. And this thread is about rationally allowing teachers to be first responders to fill the time gap involved waiting for police to arrive. Whether it’s a gun or a truck or some other method there is going to be a time delay. One of the solutions that’s been tried is to put satellite police stations in schools. Teachers with CCW’s is another solution. ---
**Author:** ![WillReadmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/6f9a4e/32.png) [@WillReadmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillReadmore)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/702 "2018-03-04T20:51:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The problem is the violence. Guns are inanimate objects. Take them away and something else will replace them. OK - let’s do that. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/703 "2018-03-04T20:53:51Z")
> [@WillReadmore](#): > > OK - let’s do that. you go right ahead and walk around without a gun and use children as a metaphor for the cycle of life. My state will allow teachers to carry guns and defend their students. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/704 "2018-03-04T20:54:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The problem is the violence. Guns are inanimate objects. Take them away and something else will replace them. The available evidence says this is wrong. Before you ask, they’ve been cited in this thread already. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/705 "2018-03-04T20:56:12Z")
Magiver, I agree. As I posted, we need active safety and sports programs. The second amendment is an anachronism and is long overdue for replacement. The militia system failed with the war between the Mormon Militia and the Illinois Militia. It was totally discredited during the war with Mexico. We need an amendment that allows responsible weapon ownership and use. Crane ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/706 "2018-03-04T20:59:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > …Either we revert back to a society that respects life… This part right here. When was this happy time? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/707 "2018-03-04T20:59:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And this thread is about rationally allowing teachers to be first responders to fill the time gap involved waiting for police to arrive. Whether it’s a gun or a truck or some other method there is going to be a time delay. > > One of the solutions that’s been tried is to put satellite police stations in schools. Teachers with CCW’s is another solution. You were on some side rails talking about being defenseless if you don’t have a gun, but if you are back on topic… Yeah, teachers with CCW’s is a potential solution, but is it the best, or even a good solution? IMHO, no, it is not, and that opinion is shared by quite a number of the actual people you would be asking to carry a gun. As far as the time gap, there’s nothing to be done about that. A mass shooter, or a truck, or whatever, is going to do the majority of their damage in the first few seconds to a minute, before anyone knows what is going on, even if you have commando trained teachers on site, they are not going to be able to do anything to prevent the initial carnage. However, if teachers were armed, and they saw something like this… > [@Magiver](#): > > I made a foot long knife in shop class when I went to high school. I carried it around as a bookmark between classes while I was making it. They may have been fearful of your intentions, and shot you for carrying around a weapon. > [@](#): > > There is no way we are ending the 2nd amendment. Either we revert back to a society that respects life or we defend ourselves from a society that doesn’t. Excluded middle much? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/708 "2018-03-04T21:03:27Z")
My training as an engineer taught me to remove the source of the problem while retaining necessary components. Crane ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/709 "2018-03-04T21:11:09Z")
OK - So let’s arm the teachers. The aggressor always has the upper hand. He knows to shoot the coach first. The armed teachers are initial targets. How would you protect school buses? Crane ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/710 "2018-03-04T21:16:38Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > … How would you protect school buses? … Protect them from what? I don’t think “school bus shootings” are really a top priority or concern. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/711 "2018-03-04T21:24:56Z")
True, they will become soft targets once the schools are hardened. You can’t win a defensive war. Crane ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/712 "2018-03-04T21:25:38Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > My training as an engineer taught me to remove the source of the problem while retaining necessary components. > > Crane My training as a business major is to efficiently apply the simplest solution. Any solution not based on human factors engineering will fail. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/713 "2018-03-04T21:28:01Z")
Ah, you may be correct - social engineering. How should that be done? Crane ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/714 "2018-03-04T21:29:58Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Protect them from what? I don’t think “school bus shootings” are really a top priority or concern. We are always told that the shooters will go for the easy targets. If all the teachers are packing heat, then the busses are the only place left if for the potential school shooter. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/715 "2018-03-04T21:33:37Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > My training as a business major is to efficiently apply the simplest solution. Any solution not based on human factors engineering will fail. The trick is to apply not the simplest solution, but the simplest _effective_ solution. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/716 "2018-03-04T21:44:03Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The trick is to apply not the simplest solution, but the simplest _effective_ solution. Yes, exactly. you’re simplest effective solution to mass murder in schools is? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/717 "2018-03-04T21:45:30Z")
It’s one you don’t like, and are trying vigorously to avoid, preferably ruling it out altogether. Go on, you tell us. BTW, you go for the most effective solution, as measured by results, cost, and time. A remarkably superficial school you must have gone to. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/718 "2018-03-04T21:46:21Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > We are always told that the shooters will go for the easy targets. If you’re goal is random mass murder that would be true. If you attack is a specific group then that is not true. Easy targets are easy targets regardless of the goal. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/719 "2018-03-04T21:47:47Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It’s one you don’t like, and are trying vigorously to avoid, preferable ruling it out altogether. > > Go on, you tell us. By all means, give me your solution. I’m immediately going to apply it to the war on drugs because we loose many times more children to drugs. Lets hear it. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/720 "2018-03-04T21:53:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, exactly. you’re simplest effective solution to mass murder in schools is? Less guns in schools is simpler than more guns in schools. Arming teachers won’t stop mass shooters. At the very best case scenario, they can shorten the spree, but as the most damage is done in the first few seconds before anyone has a chance to react, even the quickest drawing teacher is going to have only a small impact. > [@Magiver](#): > > If you’re goal is random mass murder that would be true. If you attack is a specific group then that is not true. Easy targets are easy targets regardless of the goal. If the specific group is school children, whether it is because the shooter went to the school or lived near the school and had issues with the concept of school, then school children are the targets. If you are serious about protecting them, and not just about getting more guns into circulation, then you would need to find a way to defend the students when they are being transported as well. > [@Magiver](#): > > By all means, give me your solution. I’m immediately going to apply it to the war on drugs because we loose many times more children to drugs. Gee, if only it were illegal to sell drugs, and if only the police were allowed to take away drugs from people when they are found with them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927.md?page=37)