# Arming teachers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927 "2018-02-16T14:48:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/841 "2018-03-13T01:09:32Z")
Don’t worry, Trumpy has it all taken care of. [White House proposes arming teachers, backpedals on raising age to buy guns](https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/11/politics/white-house-gun-school-safety-proposals/index.html) A three-pronged approach spearheaded by a blue-ribbon commission with its head cheerleader, Betsy “I don’t visit underperforming schools” DeVos. Let the institutional inertia continue… ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/842 "2018-03-13T01:36:03Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Good for them. Are they planning to take other steps, such as hardening access to the school, etc.? > [@Isamu](#): > > Yes, people need less access to schools. lol. You said it. Ummm…no, not in the manner you imply. Hardening access means doing things like creating single point of entry to the building, limiting access to the grounds, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/843 "2018-03-13T01:43:19Z")
Yes but then a shooter will just target different areas like a sportsfield, or a private party, a carnaval. You’re talking like school design is the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/844 "2018-03-13T02:04:34Z")
or a carnival even. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/845 "2018-03-13T04:56:43Z")
For a while, they called it Cape Kennady. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/846 "2018-03-13T18:09:05Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > I don’t think anyone be actually thinks that we are expecting armed teachers to actively track down an active shooter. An armed teacher should be expected to defend his or her classroom from being entered by an armed individual. Hoping Edna the lunch lady was a former Navy Seal and will hunt down the psycho is insane. > > My wife is a teacher and also a CCW holder. She feels the same as I do when I comes to be armed. My firearm may very well not save me from someone intent on harming me, but it doors give me a fighting chance. And if I have to go down, I’d rather do fighting for my life than begging. So, what you are saying is that all classrooms need to have an armed individual in them. Teachers who don’t want to carry are putting their students in danger, as they cannot be expected to defend his or her classroom from being entered by an armed individual. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > When it comes to the topic of gun culture influencing gun violence, there aren’t enough statistics in world, but when it comes to video game culture influencing gun violence you get responses like the one above. :rolleyes: I don’t understand why we blame video games at all. They are not the reason that people don’t feel as though human life has any sort of sanctity anymore. We have wars where we go kill other people for not doing what we want them to do, we have cops who kill people in rather dubious circumstances, we have 2A absolutists who celebrate the death of even the pettiest criminal at the hands of a “good guy with a gun”. Human life is not held to be sacred, or even all that valuable by those who are in charge, why should it have any value to random citizens? ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/847 "2018-03-13T19:03:44Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Human life is not held to be sacred, or even all that valuable by those who are in charge, why should it have any value to random citizens? The following quote from George Carlin is both applicable and one of my favorite quotes of all time. > [@George Carlin](#): > > No, you know where the sanctity of life came from? We made it up! You know why? Cause we’re alive! Self-interest. Living people have a strong interest in promoting the idea that somehow life is sacred. You don’t see Abbott and Costello running around, talking about this shit, do you? We’re not hearing a whole lot from Mussolini on the subject. What’s the latest from JFK? Not a god damned thing, cause JFK, Mussolini, and Abbott and Costello are fucking dead. They’re fucking dead, and dead people give less than a shit about the sanctity of life. > > And you might have noticed something else, the sanctity of life doesn’t seem to apply to cancer cells, does it? You never see a bumper sticker that says ‘save the tumors’ or ‘I brake for advanced melanoma.’ No, viruses, mold, mildew, maggots, fungus, weeds, e. coli bacteria, the crabs, nothing sacred about those things. So at best, the sanctity of life is kind of a selective thing. We get to choose which forms of life we feel are sacred, and we get to kill the rest. Pretty neat deal, huh? You know how we got it? We made the whole fucking thing up! ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/848 "2018-03-13T19:24:00Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > Even if we had unlimited funds for fences and a guard at every school, allowing teachers who choose to be armed to do so is a solid plan. Last line of defense. Who defends against teachers that go crazy and start shooting the kids in their classroom? After using the fancy hardened door locks to keep anyone from coming in and stopping them? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/849 "2018-03-13T19:28:37Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Who defends against teachers that go crazy and start shooting the kids in their classroom? After using the fancy hardened door locks to keep anyone from coming in and stopping them? Or that rogue student that knows exactly where the students will go and what the safety measures consist of _because she/he was trained alongside all the other students._ ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/850 "2018-03-13T19:45:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Or that rogue student that knows exactly where the students will go and what the safety measures consist of _because she/he was trained alongside all the other students._ This reminds me of a government building that conveniently had maps on the walls that showed clear directions to the active shooter safe spaces :smack: ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/851 "2018-03-13T20:28:39Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > This reminds me of a government building that conveniently had maps on the walls that showed clear directions to the active shooter safe spaces :smack: Apparently, you don’t have the clearance to know that those just lead you to viper pit traps. Errr, nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/852 "2018-03-13T21:48:59Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, what you are saying is that all classrooms need to have an armed individual in them. Teachers who don’t want to carry are putting their students in danger, as they cannot be expected to defend his or her classroom from being entered by an armed individual. > > I don’t understand why we blame video games at all. They are not the reason that people don’t feel as though human life has any sort of sanctity anymore. We have wars where we go kill other people for not doing what we want them to do, we have cops who kill people in rather dubious circumstances, we have 2A absolutists who celebrate the death of even the pettiest criminal at the hands of a “good guy with a gun”. > > Human life is not held to be sacred, or even all that valuable by those who are in charge, why should it have any value to random citizens? No, that’s not what was implied. If a teacher, or administrator, or employee wishes to arm themselves against psychopaths then they should be allowed to do so. Your claiming otherwise is your strawman. I believe that repeated exposure to uber violent video games, as well as extremely violent Hollyweird movies, plus popular music that advocates murder, rape, robbery, and abuse of others, numbs the minds of susceptible individuals. YMMV. Do you value human life? I do. Especially those of my family. I suspect that I could not count on you to help defend ourselves while we were waiting for the authorities/first responders/good guy with a gun to arrive. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/853 "2018-03-13T22:13:51Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I believe that repeated exposure to uber violent videogames, as well as extremely violent Hollyweird movies, plus popular music that advocates murder, rape, robbery, and abuse of others, numbs the minds of susceptible individuals. Susceptible individuals being Americans, since other countries where the same games, movies and music are popular don’t have the same problem with mass shootings. Right? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/854 "2018-03-13T23:04:56Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > No, that’s not what was implied. If a teacher, or administrator, or employee wishes to arm themselves against psychopaths then they should be allowed to do so. Your claiming otherwise is your strawman. > > I believe that repeated exposure to uber violent video games, as well as extremely violent Hollyweird movies, plus popular music that advocates murder, rape, robbery, and abuse of others, numbs the minds of susceptible individuals. YMMV. > > Do you value human life? I do. Especially those of my family. I suspect that I could not count on you to help defend ourselves while we were waiting for the authorities/first responders/good guy with a gun to arrive. I do value human life, and on balance, it seems as though if I had a gun all the time, there is a greater chance of that gun being the cuase of harm than of good. I’ve made it 40 years so far, in many scenarios and environments, and there has been no encounter in which having a gun would have improved he situation at all. Is that always going to be the case, maybe not, but on balance, yes, it most likely is. I think that whole media is the root of all the evils is a bit of a cop-out. What are your plans for stopping people from telling disturbing stories or playing anti-social games? Now, I do think that the media has a bit of a role in increasing the fear. You urn on the news and you see a robbery or a murder or assault or rape, and you think, “that could have been me, I need to be prepared.” But, you still have the agency to actually look at the odds, and realize that, no, that was not very likely to be you. OTOH, I do see people posting DGU videos on youtube and linking to them, where we get to watch actual people being shot by other actual people who call themselves “good guys with guns”, and I think that some of then think, “that could have been me.” and actually looking forward to the possibility. As far as your first and three paragraphs are considered, they are contradictory. You say in the first that it would be entirely voluntary, but in the last, you implied that I would not be able to be depended upon to help you and your family, and therefore, I do not value human life. You are saying that if a teacher chooses not to arm themselves, then you consider them to not value human life. And, should it ever come down to it, and you or your family needs help (or anyone or their family), then I will render aid as best I am able. I don’t own a gun, but I can use one, and if that is what is necessary, I will do so. OTOH, I also know CPR, and have a fully stocked first aid kit in my home, my place of work, and in my car (or if camping, in my backpack, but I don’t do that nearly often enough these days). I suspect that if I am ever called upon to render aid to save someone’s life, that will be far more valuable than a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/855 "2018-03-13T23:19:33Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I believe that repeated exposure to uber violent video games, as well as extremely violent Hollyweird movies, plus popular music that advocates murder, rape, robbery, and abuse of others, numbs the minds of susceptible individuals. YMMV. This is great debates, not IMHO, so I’m not accepting YMMV. Do you have a cite to back up those beliefs? You see, up here in Canada we also have violent videogames, violent movies, plus that evil rock music too. We’re still not shooting each other in the numbers that you Americans do, a fact that many of the usual suspects in the gun threads seem to be going out of their way to ignore. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/856 "2018-03-13T23:28:41Z")
I don’t actually know where to go to check. What Canadian agency compiles data on violent crimes / homicides and weapons used in Canada? ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/857 "2018-03-13T23:56:55Z")
That would be Statistics Canada, a fact that can be found out by the extremely difficult process of googling the phrase “crime statistics in Canada.” [Crime and justice](https://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/subjects/crime_and_justice) is the top link. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/858 "2018-03-14T00:02:47Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Susceptible individuals being Americans, since other countries where the same games, movies and music are popular don’t have the same problem with mass shootings. Right? When students in other countries repeatedly state that they are going to become mass murderers, and have been kicked out of school, and have been the subject of dozens of police complaints about their anti-social behavior, do other countries ignore the obvious threat? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/859 "2018-03-14T00:07:43Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > That would be Statistics Canada, a fact that can be found out by the extremely difficult process of googling the phrase “crime statistics in Canada.” > > [https://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/subjects/crime\_and\_justice](https://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/subjects/crime_and_justice) is the top link. In spite of the snark, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2018, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/860 "2018-03-14T00:56:53Z")
TL;DR: If this is asked-and-answered, let me know. Why do they always phrase it as “arming” the teachers- as if carrying a gun will be a mandatory part of the job? AFAIK absolutely nobody is proposing that;. what’s proposed that teachers who choose to be allowed to arm themselves, either by their state’s standard carry permit process or by a special training program for volunteers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927.md?page=44)