# Arming teachers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927 "2018-02-16T14:48:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/121 "2018-02-17T00:57:58Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Did you know that one of our “school shootings” this year was a gun carried by a police officer? I did not. Then keep all guns out of schools. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/122 "2018-02-17T00:59:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Did you know that one of our “school shootings” this year was a gun carried by a police officer? Now I _really_ don’t know what you’re arguing towards. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/123 "2018-02-17T01:01:49Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > I’ll admit I may be going too far the other way, in the sense that teachers bearing guns would be indistinguishable from Don Knotts in the Shakiest Gun in the West, but honestly, I don’t think most people, trained for 8 hours or 32 hours or whatever, would have a lot of presence of mind when confronted with someone firing heavy rounds constantly. > > Teachers, as a rule, just don’t have the experience, whether or not their trained. And I repeat my assertion that most people would find it very difficult to hold a gun and deliberately shoot another human being. > > That said, I agree with a previous poster who said s/he would do whatever is necessary to protect the lives of the students. However, for the average teacher, I would think that would involve covering students with their (the teacher’s) own body, barricading doors, and generally hiding and trying to stay alive. All of which makes sense. I just don’t see teachers being John Wayne. > > Which is what I see as the argument for arming teachers, and the idea of the “good guy with a gun”. > > Let the good guys with guns be law enforcement, SWAT teams, and others. Not teachers. I think your view of this is that we’re going to take the average teacher and stick a gun in their hand. Most of the actual proposals / discussion I see are around letting teachers with CCW permits carry in their class. These people already carry all over town, in their car, in the grocery store, at the movie theater, out at a restaurant, etc. Oftentimes, CCW permit holders will practice regularly and / or seek out additional training above and beyond the required minimum to obtain a permit. It’s a self-selecting group of people that already by-and-large exercise appropriate judgement when handling their firearms and dealing with confrontation. No, they’re not perfect, but then neither are the police or anyone else. In a pinch, when someone is trying to murder their students, they’re probably better than nothing, more often than not. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/124 "2018-02-17T01:02:51Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > I did not. Then keep all guns out of schools. You didn’t think they were inviting-enough targets already? Now you want them _completely_ defenseless? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/125 "2018-02-17T01:04:33Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Now I _really_ don’t know what you’re arguing towards. It’s a dig at that gun control group that was pushing that phoney statistic about how many school shootings there have been this year. One of the incidents they counted was when a third-grader pulled the trigger on a police gun while the officer was sitting on a bench. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/126 "2018-02-17T01:06:57Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think your view of this is that we’re going to take the average teacher and stick a gun in their hand. Most of the actual proposals / discussion I see are around letting teachers with CCW permits carry in their class. These people already carry all over town, in their car, in the grocery store, at the movie theater, out at a restaurant, etc. Oftentimes, CCW permit holders will practice regularly and / or seek out additional training above and beyond the required minimum to obtain a permit. It’s a self-selecting group of people that already by-and-large exercise appropriate judgement when handling their firearms and dealing with confrontation. No, they’re not perfect, but then neither are the police or anyone else. In a pinch, when someone is trying to murder their students, they’re probably better than nothing, more often than not. That may be the reality, but the argument (from Fox and others on the right) don’t seem to take that into account. It’s all “arm the teachers!” (except in all caps) like a knee jerk reaction. The point of this thread was to dissect that argument and explain some of the details the pundits don’t or can’t. If this particular thread is any indication, then there’s not much else to go on. Because the pundits who shout “arm the teachers” either don’t know, or don’t care, that there are already some teachers around the country that are armed. And if that’s the case, let’s begin to gather those data in the areas where teachers are armed, and see if any connection can be made between CCW in schools and violence. If only the NRA would allow the CDC to study gun violence… ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/127 "2018-02-17T01:10:00Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > … If only the NRA would allow the CDC to study gun violence… You are mistaken. Neither the NRA, nor Congress are preventing the CDC from ‘study[ing] gun violence’. The only thing the Dickey Amendment prevented was spending money “to advocate or promote gun control”. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/128 "2018-02-17T01:10:07Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You didn’t think they were inviting-enough targets already? Now you want them _completely_ defenseless? Perhaps the top of every desk should be Kevlar and Titanium. Hey, and put 3 shuriken under every desk. Obviously if the entire class is throwing shuriken at once, the guy with the gun is going to go down in a hail of flying, spinning blades, right? ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/129 "2018-02-17T01:12:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > While I would prefer an actual police officer over poorly paid and even poorly trained teachers, I don’t think a single police officer for some schools would be sufficient. The school that just got shot up was a multilevel, multi thousand student campus, and the chances of a single officer being in the right place at the right time in a case like that is pretty slim. > The disadvantage of hiring enough officers is the cost, but the advantages would be trained personnel that have radio contact with each other and the school office(less confusion). u This was my thought exactly, one police officer isn’t enough. Our local high school has approximately 2,000 students and is comparable to a small college. That also doesn’t take into account the number of faculty and support staff workers in the building at any given time. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/130 "2018-02-17T01:18:22Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You didn’t think they were inviting-enough targets already? Now you want them _completely_ defenseless? I didn’t say to keep out cops and security. A “special” 3rd grader pulling the trigger really isn’t a school shooting anyway. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/131 "2018-02-17T01:25:23Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > That may be the reality, but the argument (from Fox and others on the right) don’t seem to take that into account. It’s all “arm the teachers!” (except in all caps) like a knee jerk reaction. The point of this thread was to dissect that argument and explain some of the details the pundits don’t or can’t. > > If this particular thread is any indication, then there’s not much else to go on. Because the pundits who shout “arm the teachers” either don’t know, or don’t care, that there are already some teachers around the country that are armed. And if that’s the case, let’s begin to gather those data in the areas where teachers are armed, and see if any connection can be made between CCW in schools and violence. … Can you point me to some pundits that are just saying “arm the teachers!” (except in all caps) like a knee jerk reaction? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/132 "2018-02-17T01:26:48Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > … A “special” 3rd grader pulling the trigger really isn’t a school shooting anyway. I agree. I think gun control advocates are essentially lying to people by labeling it one. They are very dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/133 "2018-02-17T01:28:19Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > I didn’t say to keep out cops and security. … But you did say “Then keep all guns out of schools.” Seeking to clarify here: did you mean that you want to see cops and security present, but without their guns? Or was “keep all guns out of schools” not intended to apply to guns in the possession of police officers? ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/134 "2018-02-17T01:38:20Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > But you did say “Then keep all guns out of schools.” Seeking to clarify here: did you mean that you want to see cops and security present, but without their guns? Or was “keep all guns out of schools” not intended to apply to guns in the possession of police officers? I’m advocating for all guns out of the schools besides those on the cops. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/135 "2018-02-17T01:40:04Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > I’m advocating for all guns out of the schools besides those on the cops. Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. Just as a friendly reminder, I’m still waiting for those cites I asked about in post #131. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/136 "2018-02-17T01:44:37Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. Just as a friendly reminder, I’m still waiting for those cites I asked about in post #131. Post 131 was a quote from someone else. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/137 "2018-02-17T01:47:56Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > Post 131 was a quote from someone else. Ah shit, you’re right. Sorry. I’m tired, time to call it a night. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/138 "2018-02-17T02:18:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Can you point me to some pundits that are just saying “arm the teachers!” (except in all caps) like a knee jerk reaction? Let’s see. National Review, ClownHall, Betsy DeVos, a NC State Legislator, Breitbart, Doyle Brunson the ‘famous’ poker player… That’s just on the first page of a google search for ‘arm the teachers’. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/139 "2018-02-17T03:26:48Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Let’s see. National Review, ClownHall, Betsy DeVos, a NC State Legislator, Breitbart, Doyle Brunson the ‘famous’ poker player… > > That’s just on the first page of a google search for ‘arm the teachers’. Thanks. I think he was asking me, but since I have a life and a family, I spent time away from here. Not to pile on, here are some links. > **[This Is the Only Way to Prevent School Shootings](https://townhall.com/columnists/kevinmccullough/2018/02/15/why-we-must-arm-teachers-now-n2449611)** > > Guns in the hands of trained teachers wouldve saved lives yesterday in Broward County Florida. > [@](#): > > If electronic locks, and reinforced doors do not prevent the penetration of a committed killer into a school where innocent children wait like sheep to be slaughtered… > > Then it is time for teachers to be armed, locked, loaded, and ready to end a killing spree before dozens more die. > > So arm the teachers. Arm them so that the mere knowledge of such firepower potentially raining back down on the perp dissuades him from ever attempting an attack. Or at the very least ends his attacks before maximum potential carnage has been created. > > Save children, arm the teachers, arm them now! > **[Judge Napolitano: Teachers Should Carry Guns](https://www.newsweek.com/florida-shooting-we-need-armed-teachers-and-superior-fire-power-schools-808557)** > > He envisioned a plan where teachers were quietly trained with firearms. > [@](#): > > Florida Shooting: We Need Armed Teachers And Superior Fire Power In Schools To Prevent Attacks, Fox News’s Judge Napolitano Says > **[To Stop Mass School Shootings, Fight Fire With Fire By Arming Teachers](https://thefederalist.com/2018/02/16/prevent-mass-school-shootings-time-fight-fire-fire/)** > > The best way to prevent mass school shootings is to harden these soft targets by allowing licensed and trained teachers to carry firearms on campus. > [@](#): > > To Prevent Mass School Shootings, It’s Time To Fight Fire With Fire By Arming Teachers Three, plus what **Chimera** listed, should be enough examples to prove that point. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2018, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927/140 "2018-02-17T04:06:48Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’m curious. How many dead kids is the threshold for you? How many would need to be shot in school before you felt something should be done? > > Since Sandy Hook in 2012, “there have been at least 239 school shootings nationwide. In those episodes, 438 people were shot, 138 of whom were killed.” [CITE](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/15/us/school-shootings-sandy-hook-parkland.html) > > That is almost one school shooting per week. > > If wild dogs were roaming America and once a week they mauled several kids you’d be ok with that since it is not really “blood in the streets” and statistically your chances of dying by wild dog attack are pretty small? Next time, try reading for comprehension. Anyway, since you asked– Do you remember the Amish school shooting back in 2006? > **[West Nickel Mines School shooting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Nickel_Mines_School_shooting)** > > .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct,.mw-parser-output .geo-inline-hidden{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}39°57′37″N 76°05′04″W / 39.96021°N 76.084393°W / 39.96021; -76.084393 > On October 2, 2006, a shooting occurred at the West Nickel Mines School, an Amish one-room schoolhouse in the Old Order Amish comm... If I had been single-handedly responsible for public policy, I would have made it a requirement back then that at least 10% of teachers in each school be armed at all times. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/arming-teachers/808927.md?page=8)