# Army: 13 U.S. Troops Committed Suicide in Iraq **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 17, 2003, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908 "2003-10-17T01:27:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ExecutiveJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@ExecutiveJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExecutiveJesus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/1 "2003-10-17T01:27:24Z")
[Army Concerned About Suicides of U.S. Troops in Iraq](http://famulus.msnbc.com/FamulusIntl/reuters10-16-101830.asp?reg=MIDEAST) [Text of article replaced with link. – MEB] ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/2 "2003-10-17T01:50:35Z")
There’s a debate here? You might consider quoting the article briefly, providing a link, and offering some comments of your own, next time. ---
**Author:** ![Dostromin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c0e974/32.png) [@Dostromin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dostromin)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/3 "2003-10-17T01:59:00Z")
GOD FORBID ANYONE JUST PROVIDES INFORMATION! [/sarcasm] I had not heard this story before, and I think it’s just more proof that American morale is going to crap. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/4 "2003-10-17T02:00:27Z")
You still should give a clue as to what is being debated… ---
**Author:** ![2Thick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/a88e57/32.png) [@2Thick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Thick)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/5 "2003-10-17T03:31:58Z")
Here is a debate topic. These are men who know what they are doing and cannot live with the guilt. Plus, having their house taken away by the bank because they cannot be home making money for their families also play into it. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/6 "2003-10-17T04:30:12Z")
2Thick: Here’s another concept–put your opinions in the IMHO forum. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/7 "2003-10-17T04:34:37Z")
Sheesh… if that’s not the cheapest political shot I’ve seen, it’s damn close. There’s no proof that there’s any “guilt” involved on the soldiers’ side of things, or that National Guard troops are involved. In case you aren’t aware, regular troops are full-time soldiers and make MORE money being over there as opposed to deployed state-side. In fact, assuming [this article](http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-3131568,00.html) to be more or less accurate concerning the number of US troops in Iraq, 13 suicides is LOWER than the USMC rate , just about the US Army rate, and slightly higher than the USAF rate. Predicted suicide rates based on the information given in the OP: USMC rates: 12.6 / 100,000 = 0.000126 (suicides per man) 0.000126 \* 125,000 (# of troops currently in Iraq) = 15.75 suicides US Army rates: 11 / 100,000 = 0.00011 (suicides per man) 0.00011 \* 125,000 (# of troops currently in Iraq) = 13.75 suicides USAF rates: 9.5 / 100,000 = 0.000095 (suicides per man) 0.000095 \* 125,000 (# of troops currently in Iraq) = 11.875 suicides So, even without getting into it much further, it doesn’t appear that the servicepeople in Iraq are committing suicide at any higher rate than they would be if they were deployed stateside. And, [according to NIMH](http://www.nimh.nih.gov/research/suifact.cfm) the normal US rate is 10.6/100,000, which is just about the US Army rate, and for people aged 20-24, it’s 12.8/100,000, which is the USMC rate. There’s no proof that morale is going down, no proof of guilt, hell, there’s no proof that anything is even out of the ordinary! ---
**Author:** ![Donut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Donut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donut)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/8 "2003-10-17T04:41:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Plus, having their house taken away by the bank because they cannot be home making money for their families also play into it. I suspect I’m being wooshed, but… gah? Are these men and women not in Iraq as part of their paying jobs? Do you think stateside marines have, like, part-time jobs at McDonald’s? ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/9 "2003-10-17T04:43:58Z")
To be honest, 13 suicides, in 7 months among a population of 130.000 people under intense stress doens´t seem to be unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/10 "2003-10-17T04:45:48Z")
Bump said it better. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Donut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Donut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donut)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/11 "2003-10-17T04:50:41Z")
I assume the suicide rates **bump** posted are per 100,000 people per year, but the troops have only been in Iraq for about half that, so the rate is slightly higher than you would expect stateside. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/12 "2003-10-17T06:28:49Z")
> [@](#): > > I suspect I’m being wooshed, but… gah? Are these men and women not in Iraq as part of their paying jobs? Do you think stateside marines have, like, part-time jobs at McDonald’s? The woosh here is in relationship to Reserve units. Although many laws protect the jobs of reservists themselves, reservsts still do not pull paychecks when they are in the Reserves except their Reserve paycheck. For instance, some Reserve officer normally makes 110K per year through a management gig and the whole weekend warrior thing. Takes out financial obligations such as mortgage, car, and generally standard of living (although these are presumably flexible and simply an adjustment) items without considering fully the possibility of an extended deployment. Suddenly, they find themselves rotated into Iraq for six months, then a year, who knows how long, and they’re pulling a pay-check of 25-50K per year. Essentially yes, they do have part time jobs at McDonalds. Only not part time and not at McDonalds. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/13 "2003-10-17T07:41:08Z")
**Moderator’s Note:** **ExecutiveJesus** , please review our [policy on copright issues](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2079030#post2079030). Don’t just cut and paste an entire article on any of the SDMB forums. Also (and this is also in reply to **Dostromin** ’s post), the purpose of the Great Debates forum is for _debates_. It’s therefore helpful to provide some point of view; when appropriate, a link or quotations (done in accordance with the copyright policy) may be included in support of the argument you’re trying to make. If you really don’t have a firm opinion about a subject, and would like to stimulate discussion in order to help you clarify your own opinion, your original post may be in the form of a question or questions. (“Does this news story mean that…?”) ---
**Author:** ![MMI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@MMI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MMI)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/14 "2003-10-17T17:48:58Z")
I am shocked, shocked at the complacency of those who have posted so far. I for one, am completely against suicide by our armed forces members. ---
**Author:** ![2Thick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/a88e57/32.png) [@2Thick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Thick)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/15 "2003-10-17T19:26:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*2Thick: Here’s another concept–put your opinions in the IMHO forum. \*\* Nobody is talking to you. Did your mother not teach you any manners? Do not speak until you are spoken to. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/16 "2003-10-17T19:47:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 2Thick \* > \*\*Nobody is talking to you. Did your mother not teach you any manners? Do not speak until you are spoken to. \*\* No offence, but did you read **MEBuckner** ’s post? > [@](#): > > the purpose of the Great Debates forum is for debates. It’s therefore helpful to provide some point of view; when appropriate, a link or quotations (done in accordance with the copyright policy) may be included in support of the argument you’re trying to make. You didn’t do any of those things. If you feel that your comments are worthy of debate, form a debatable point, and support your contentions. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/17 "2003-10-17T19:53:51Z")
I don’t recall anyone talking to you then, **2Thick**. Perhaps you should follow your own advice. Or Maybe you’re just upset because you’ve been called (once again) on your habit of spewing out the first thing that comes to your mind with no ability to back up anything you say. ---
**Author:** ![2Thick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/a88e57/32.png) [@2Thick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Thick)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/18 "2003-10-17T20:26:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > \*\*I don’t recall anyone talking to you then, **2Thick**. Perhaps you should follow your own advice. > > Or Maybe you’re just upset because you’ve been called (once again) on your habit of spewing out the first thing that comes to your mind with no ability to back up anything you say. \*\* :o ---
**Author:** ![2Thick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/a88e57/32.png) [@2Thick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Thick)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/19 "2003-10-17T20:37:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by adam yax \* > **No offence, but did you read MEBuckner’s post?** Yes. \*\* > [@](#): > > You didn’t do any of those things. If you feel that your comments are worthy of debate, form a debatable point, and support your contentions. \*\* I stated facts about people losing their homes due to extended deployments and it should be common knowledge to anyone with an internet connection or a TV (although it seems that most people need to be spoon-fed basic morsels of non-propagandized information in North America). If use cites for uncommon knowledge. Here is a cite, if it makes you happy: [http://abcnews.go.com/sections/business/2020/Iraq\_reservefamilies\_030414.html](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/business/2020/Iraq_reservefamilies_030414.html) ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908/20 "2003-10-17T21:12:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 2Thick \* > I stated facts about people losing their homes due to extended deployments and it should be common knowledge to anyone with an internet connection or a TV (although it seems that most people need to be spoon-fed basic morsels of non-propagandized information in North America). \*\* I guess that you have not been here long enough to realize that nobody gets a free pass when they post “facts”, unless they are of the 2+2=4 variety, and even then then you may be asked to support your position. Your idea of common knowledge is not the same as mine, or the same as anybody else on these boards, that is why ‘ **Cite?** ’, is a very common refrain here. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-13-u-s-troops-committed-suicide-in-iraq/207908.md?page=2)