# Army Engineer Troops Used in Combat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 29, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215 "2010-05-29T19:31:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/1 "2010-05-29T19:31:15Z")
As I understand it, Army Engineering troops are vital-they build roads, bridges, water systems, and make it possible for an army in the field to survive. Given their importance, they are not used in combat…but in case of urgent need, they are trained (basic combat training). Have engineering battalions ever been pressed into service as combat troops? How did they perform? ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/2 "2010-05-29T19:59:33Z")
My brother was in the Army Core of engineers during Vietman. He started in an open area. They built the base. At first there were no other troups in the area so if attacked they had to fight. After the base was partly built he did have to go out on some night patrols. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/3 "2010-05-29T20:07:41Z")
Combat engineers are a separate MOS from other military engineers. They specialize in field operations to advance the mission(s) of fighting units, including bridging, fortification, demolition, etc. In the U.S. Army, they are also trained as rifle infantry, and sometimes act in that capacity. Combat engineers often advance under fire to destroy enemy fortifications and other obstacles, and they perform very well. D-Day might have failed without sappers clearing the way; it was bloody enough as it was. Military historians of the non-Wikipedia variety are welcome to contradict any of the above, but I think I’ve got it right. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/4 "2010-05-29T20:16:41Z")
Old British Indian Army saying, 'sappers first in harms way". ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/5 "2010-05-29T20:26:44Z")
[They did splendidly, old boy!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Rorke%27s_Drift) By Jove, [even Stanley Baker won a VC](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058777/)! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/6 "2010-05-29T20:53:33Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > [They did splendidly, old boy!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Rorke%27s_Drift) By Jove, [even Stanley Baker won a VC](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058777/)! > > 😉 Hey, he _told_ us he came here to build a bridge. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/7 "2010-05-29T21:03:00Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Combat engineers are a separate MOS from other military engineers. They specialize in field operations to advance the mission(s) of fighting units, including bridging, fortification, demolition, etc. In the U.S. Army, they are also trained as rifle infantry, and sometimes act in that capacity. Combat engineers often advance under fire to destroy enemy fortifications and other obstacles, and they perform very well. D-Day might have failed without sappers clearing the way; it was bloody enough as it was. > > Military historians of the non-Wikipedia variety are welcome to contradict any of the above, but I think I’ve got it right. Same thing for combat engineers in Canada. I was in such a unit and we were trained to conduct patrols and road blocks, use machineguns, grenades, recoiless rifles and other combat-related tasks just like the infantry, artillery and armor. Pure engineers though, I expect resemble the medical and logistics corps. They know how to operate the basic assault rifle and (hopefully) not get lost in the woods. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/8 "2010-05-29T21:39:48Z")
My great uncle was a combat engineer with the 29th Infrantry when the landed at D day. He got shot on D day and during the battle of the Bulge, so he must have pissed someone off. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/9 "2010-05-29T21:40:29Z")
Same thing for U.S. Navy Seabees and Civil Engineering Corps. Our job was to construct forward bases for the Marines and to defend what we built. We were trained in defensive combat as well as how to conduct patrols, and in ambush tactics. Every Seabee battalion carries a full complement of light and heavy weapons, and is organized into a typical fighting unit with rifle and weapons platoons. Every “home port” period was spent in both military and technical training, as well as project planning for upcoming deployments. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/10 "2010-05-29T22:31:43Z")
The Seabees got a [John Wayne movie](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fighting_Seabees), so they had to be pretty tough. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/11 "2010-05-29T22:41:14Z")
Same thing for US Air Force RED HORSE [Squadrons](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_Engineer_Deployable_Heavy_Operational_Repair_Squadron_Engineers). The Air Force doesn’t have offensive infantry (in the classic sense) and is usually bound to an airfield. But, RED HORSE does go outside the wire to build roads, campsites, radar sites, wells, etc. to _project_ mission capabilities and is trained in self/site defense. Any forward demolition or explosives work is done by EOD, although the HORSE does do some explosive operations for quarry work. Tripler - Prior 819 RED HORSE. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/12 "2010-05-29T22:57:25Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > The Seabees got a [John Wayne movie](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fighting_Seabees), so they had to be pretty tough. > 🆒 Yes, but that film doesn’t end well for the Duke. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/13 "2010-05-29T23:00:05Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > My brother was in the Army Core of engineers during Vietman. Oh, jeez, I just have to fix this. It’s _Army Corps of Engineers_. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/14 "2010-05-29T23:21:11Z")
I’m a Combat Engineer. Engineers are always in the thick of it. We are considered Combat Arms just like Infantry. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/15 "2010-05-29T23:50:55Z")
> [@ghardester](#): > > Oh, jeez, I just have to fix this. It’s _Army Corps of Engineers_. > > Carry on. OK now it is my turn to say DA ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/16 "2010-05-30T04:19:12Z")
My Grandfather was a Seabee in WWII building airstrips in the Pacific island hoppping campaigns and saw a lot of action. Although he died the year I was born, I’ve seen the photos, letters and heard a few third-hand stories and it sounded pretty rough. Their motto is “We Build, We Fight.” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/17 "2010-05-30T13:35:39Z")
There is also the difference between Combat Engineers and infantry/engineering units several militaries possess, like Assault Pioneers or Sappers (depending oin the army). These are elite infantry units who undergo engineering training; basically, Combat Engineers will build you a bridge, Assault Pioneers will blow up an enemy bridge. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/18 "2010-05-30T13:44:15Z")
[MOS 21b.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKNsBX-hSOg) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/19 "2010-05-30T14:44:54Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > My Grandfather was a Seabee in WWII building airstrips in the Pacific island hoppping campaigns and saw a lot of action. Although he died the year I was born, I’ve seen the photos, letters and heard a few third-hand stories and it sounded pretty rough. Their motto is “We Build, We Fight.” _Construimus, Batuimus_ officially. Hats off to your gramps: those guys were truly in the thick of things on those stinking islands. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215/20 "2010-05-30T15:27:35Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I’m a Combat Engineer. Engineers are always in the thick of it. We are considered Combat Arms just like Infantry. “First In, Last Out” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-engineer-troops-used-in-combat/541215.md?page=2)