# Army general declares Americans too fat or criminal to fight in rebuke of service leaders **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 5, 2022, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961 "2022-09-05T02:22:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/61 "2022-09-06T03:07:42Z")
The dentists would fit men with prosthetics (bridges?) to give them the required number of teeth so it was able to be remedied but your overall point still stands. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/62 "2022-09-06T03:17:22Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I tend to think it’s something of a nothing-burger, in that the military could very easily solve this by tacking a few more weeks onto boot camp, or having some sort of fitness camp recruits would attend prior to boot camp. Fitness is something that can be solved. At least in 2004, they had exactly that. If you couldn’t pass a basic fitness test in reception, you stayed there and did PT until you could. Only at that point did you move on to your basic assignment. Even after things like that, more than one member of my company dropped 20+ pounds. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/63 "2022-09-06T04:50:15Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Why wouldn’t girls take it too? They join the military. I didn’t think they were required to sign up for selective service or whatever it’s called? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/64 "2022-09-06T05:20:05Z")
That’s correct but the Selective Service hasn’t been used to draft anyone in over 40 years and it’s been effectively obsolete for decades. Regardless, the test isn’t used by the Selective Service and no one is required to take that test except apparently at the occasional high school. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/65 "2022-09-06T06:39:24Z")
Here is some info that seems to fit my experience back in '93 or '94 or whenever it was. (I can’t remember if I was a Junior or Senior.) > **[Is The ASVAB Required In High School? \[2024 Updated\]](https://asvab-prep.com/is-the-asvab-required-in-high-school/)** > > The ASVAB is a test that is required for enlistment in the military. But is the ASVAB required in high school? Check it now! > Schools that administer the test may do so without parental knowledge and, while it may seem mandatory, students may opt to decline the test. However, the ASVAB offers a fairly clear picture of where a student’s abilities lie and can be helpful in selecting a career path, military or otherwise. As I said before, it probably wasn’t mandatory, but it sure seemed like it was. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/66 "2022-09-06T07:30:21Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Is that so for the US Army? It wasn’t for the British - the middle and upper classes who made up the junior officer ranks suffered proportionally greater losses, as they were the ones leading the men over the top. > [@Dissonance](#): > > That’s the British class system colliding with the progressively increasing lethality of war over time and the resultant higher casualties of officers directly leading men in battle during this period. It was statistically more dangerous to be a line officer than an ‘other ranks’/enlisted in both the US Civil War and WW1. Middle and upper classes held officer ranks in the British army out of tradition, not necessarily out of qualification. Direct purchasing of commissions in the British army wasn’t abolished until [1871](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchase_of_commissions_in_the_British_Army). While the average ‘class’ of an officer in the US army in the Civil War or WW1 was probably higher than that of the average enlisted man, social class and mobility within it in Britain was far more solid and structured than was the case in the US. The British upper classes have many faults but shirking from danger isn’t one of them. A century prior during the Napoleonic Wars the sons of upper class and aristocrats served and died in droves. If you ever visist St Paul, you will see multiple plaques set up by the families of young aristocrats killed in battle. It was sobering to read about a battle then a few days later seeing the memorial of a young Lt who fell in it…and realising that I was even then older than he ever got. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/67 "2022-09-06T07:35:08Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Armies are MUCH smaller than they used to be. It’s simply not possible or necessary to field armies as large as they once were; you couldn’t afford to, because weapons systems are so expensive now (even after adjusting for inflation) and the speed and lethality of weapons and weapons platforms is just off the charts. Well, maybe. WW2 and WW1 showed that after the first couple of years, militaries weren’t able to keep up with the amount of production. Lots of equipment and a paucity of trained men to use them was something all combatants faced. Of course nuclear weapons sort of change the equation. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/68 "2022-09-06T12:27:11Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > One of my uncles got in trouble with his local VFW post by saying he was a Vietnam veteran, when actually, he was a Vietnam-ERA veteran. This is one reason I’ve never joined one of those organizations. If you served during the conflict, you’re a veteran. End of story. Rear echelon folks may not be getting shot at, but they are serving their country in time of war. It’s not their fault that they were never under fire. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/69 "2022-09-06T12:39:25Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Also, people who don’t come from money tend to be less educated and end up as enlisted personnel. There are, of course, far more enlisted than there are officers; ergo, the poorer and less-educated element does most of the fighting and dying in any war. I think that’s the biggest factor. If I’m a rich kid in the 60s, and am about to be drafted as cannon fodder for the army, I probably have a lot more resources available to try to get into a better service, like volunteering for a better service where I’m less likely to see combat, getting some kind of specialist job behind the lines, or becoming an officer. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/71 "2022-09-06T13:25:45Z")
True, but I can sort of see where they’re coming from. My father served in the USAF from 1969-1973, but he didn’t even leave San Antonio, except for a short stretch in Colorado Springs where his branch school was. He was always somewhat dismissive of the idea that he was any sort of veteran- he did serve during wartime, but in a stateside logistical position that was centered around local base logistics, not the air freight aspect of the USAF that was flown out of Kelly AFB (where he was stationed) in large amounts. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/72 "2022-09-06T13:37:29Z")
Yeah, my ex brother in law’s father and uncle were both in the Army/Navy during the Vietnam war. One wouldn’t stop talking about being a Vietnam War veteran and the other never mentioned it. Turns out the chap who was actually in SE Asia never talked about it, while the guy who never left Subic Bay wouldn’t shut up about his role in the War to Stop Communism. Their family owned a paper mill, so they were quite well off and quite well connected in State government at least. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/73 "2022-09-06T13:42:49Z")
My co-worker who repaired helicopters in country well behind the lines, sure. He always made it very clear that he was never in real danger. My co-worker who was in West Germany at the tail end of things, no way. He was one of most lazy and loathsome people I have ever known. Whenever he was in danger of getting fired, he’d whine that he was a veteran and shouldn’t be treated that way. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/74 "2022-09-06T15:20:27Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > That’s correct but the Selective Service hasn’t been used to draft anyone in over 40 years and it’s been effectively obsolete for decades. Regardless, the test isn’t used by the Selective Service and no one is required to take that test except apparently at the occasional high school. Thanks for the explanation. Still trying to get my head around the idea of a military aptitude test being quasi-mandatory at a high school, as mentioned by **Atamasama**. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/75 "2022-09-06T15:25:59Z")
Yeah, that’s very odd. That said, I had a ten week class in 10th Grade called Guidance that was a required class. We took a few aptitude tests and one of them very well might have been that one. I wouldn’t have known. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/76 "2022-09-06T15:28:01Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Still trying to get my head around the idea of a military aptitude test being quasi-mandatory at a high school, as mentioned by **Atamasama**. I might guess that it was a matter of the principal, or another influential person at the school, being a military veteran and/or supporter of the military, and thus instigated the “mandatory” administration of the test in order to not-so-subtly steer some students into the armed forces. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/77 "2022-09-06T15:36:16Z")
Depending on where you are in the US and the general climate around that particular school board or individusl Principal (let’s remember the US school system is extremely atomized), the school or whole district may be incentivized/encouraged to provide support for recruiters; or else to just show off that their students are so preparing for the future they take a lot of various tests of aptitude (ASVAB, PSAT, SAT, ACT, etc.). And an easy way to do this is to take a day for everyone to do so as a default, that you **could** opt out of but don’t get told too loud you can. If the district had a lot of BAD test results, I’d bet they’d ditch it… ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/78 "2022-09-06T15:40:32Z")
I just remembered that we did have an Army recruiter come to the class one day and speak to us. That seems appropriate to me even in retrospect because we had people from other professions come to speak to us as well. I really wanted to be a medical doctor in High School. The aptitude test very clearly said that I should be a mechanical engineer. Guess who changed their major to mechanical engineering sophomore year. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/79 "2022-09-06T15:46:43Z")
> [@bump](#): > > True, but I can sort of see where they’re coming from. On reflection, I can too. I always get riled on these issues. My brother’s obituary said he was a Korean War veteran, which made me laugh. War campaigns last over a designated time frame, the front and back ends of which don’t necessarily include combat actions. In his case, he literally joined the army in the _last week_ of the campaign after all the fighting was done, and so was awarded the National Defense Service Ribbon. He used to give an embarrassed laugh when it was mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/80 "2022-09-06T15:53:05Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > My brother’s obituary said he was a Korean War veteran, which made me laugh. War campaigns last over a designated time frame, the front and back ends of which don’t necessarily include combat actions. In his case, he literally joined the army in the _last week_ of the campaign after all the fighting was done, and so was awarded the National Defense Service Ribbon. My father joined the Army in late 1953, a few months after the armistice was signed which effectively ended the Korean War. He served for, I think, three years, as a tank driver, but spent all of his service time stateside, most of it stationed in Texas. However, the VA considers him to be a Korean War veteran (the cutoff, apparently, was in January of 1955). My dad has never claimed to have served in wartime, and he finds the fact that he’s considered to be a war veteran kind of comical, but it does apparently mean that he qualifies for some additional VA benefits. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2022, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961/81 "2022-09-06T16:02:51Z")
My childhood friend’s dad wanted to enlist during WWII but his eyesight was horrible, even corrected. They finally did find a job for him. He was sent to somewhere in New England where there was a building where officers met for some reason or another. He shoveled coal into the heater burner and maintained the heater. He would never have claimed veteran status but he did get a flag and honor guard at his funeral. He would have gone to combat if he could have. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-general-declares-americans-too-fat-or-criminal-to-fight-in-rebuke-of-service-leaders/970961.md?page=5)