# Army, Navy, Airforce, Marines???? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 26, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367 "2003-03-26T20:59:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kpm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c57346/32.png) [@kpm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kpm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/41 "2003-03-27T21:41:26Z")
If you want to be a pilot in the Air Force it helps a lot to get a private pilot’s license before you get into the Air Force. That’s probably true for the other services too. Also the guys who go to the Air Force Academy get the 1st choice of what planes to fly. A lot of them pick fighters. The next choice goes to ROTC graduates. If you go to OCS you get last choice - which means cargo planes in most cases. If you don’t have a pilot’s license the Air Force puts all the potential pilots in OCS through a very fast course to learn how to fly a small plane. If you don’t pass that course (and not everyone does ) you can still be an officer in some other area. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/42 "2003-03-27T21:48:24Z")
Attempts at deploying Army units on Navy vessels (“Purple” exercises) were not as successful as the DoD reported. Force projection from the Sea is something the Army is not organized to do. They CAN change and become that way, but they have not. Marine Expeditionary Units are deployed at all times with the training and ability to move within 24 hours of recieving the Warning Order from the National Command Authority to perform a range of Missions from Non-Combatant Evacuations and Humanitarian Aid Missions, to Shipping Interdiction, Hostage Rescue, Tactical Recovery of Aircraft and Personnel, Airfield Seizures, Ship Seizures, and a dozen other missions. All within one unit. Anywhere there is a coastline. Major UncleBill USMCR ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/43 "2003-03-27T22:10:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by El Marko \* > **Just a quick point on the Coast Guard (which doe slots of great stuff BTW): technically it is a part of the US Department of Transportation according to it’s own website: [http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/history/faqs/when.html](http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/history/faqs/when.html) > Sorry I’m not up on all the html coding tricks. Anyway, according to the USCG faq page, until 1967 it was part of the Treasury Department except during wartime when it came under the cognizance of the US Navy per various executive orders on a case by case basis. I believe just recently it may have been transfered from the DOT to the new Dept of Homeland Security.** You are indeed correct. As of March 1st, we are now in Dept of Home Land Security. Or is it Homeland? Anyway, we have been successful in our massive undertaking of complete department change over, which consisted of working late nights changing all of our letter head from DOT to DOHLS. Or DLHS. Or D’oh! Complimentary Commendation Medals are being handed out to all HQ staff as I type. Anyhoo, we have retained our status in law as one of the 5 armed services. As far as the Marine v Army thing, I think one thing all to oft overlooked is this: The culture. Each service has a proud and storied history from which their cultures have evolved. To dismiss either branch due to thinktank garbage and streamlining would be tragic. Could the Marines have taken Normandy? Absolutely. Could the Army waged the Pacific campaign themselves? You betcha. But why in the world anyone would even _think_ about eliminating one or the other is crazy. You just don’t tinker with things that work. You don’t just throw away over 200 years of history, pride and hard earned knowledge and culture for the sake of some business practice. Anytime you jarheads or groundpounders want to storm a beach, I’d be honored to give you a hand. Preferrably Marines, though - I hear they shoot better. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/44 "2003-03-27T22:21:00Z")
And a hand would be appreciated. The Army does things the Marine Corps is not suited for, and vice versa. Either COULD do it, and would when pressed. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/45 "2003-03-28T01:02:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBill \* > **My description of Quantico training was TBS, The Basic School. PLC Air Officers go through TBS BEFORE getting their wings.** I graduated May, 1961 with orders to report to Pensacola in August. My friend, who dragged me to sign up, was with me. We went to classes for 10 weeks and started flying some time in October. That was when we started receiving flight pay. Approximately, 14 months later I had a run in with a thing called auto-rotating and was told to report to Quantico for Basic School. A few months of Easy Company waiting for a class to begin and then 6 months of Basic School, then to El Toro to a MASS Squadron and six months later I went on inactive reserve status. So far, so good. Meanwhile my friend got his wings and was stationed at Cherry Point. He visited me once in Quantico for an afternoon, but that is as close as he has been to Quantico, since his 6 week camps during college. No BASIC SCHOOL. As stated at recruitment his tour lasted 6 months longer than mine, since he received his wings. > [@](#): > > **They are not Marine Pilots until they are winged. They may have flight training, they may be pilots, and they may be Marines. But they are not yet Marine Pilots.** 😕 What did I say different? I was a Marine, I was in flight school, I even hit a carrier, but I never said I was a Marine Pilot. However, for 14 months or so I was paid “flight pay” and that was my point. By then I was a 1st lieutenant with a good deal of longevity, which meant I was better paid than the 2nd lieutenants going thru Basic School with me. My intent was to promote the PLC program, not to be disrespectful to a superior officer. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![iamamoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b4bc9f/32.png) [@iamamoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamamoocher)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/46 "2003-03-28T02:49:10Z")
I have a few questions. What is the current vision requirement for Marine and Navy pilot training? Meaning–what corrective surgery is acceptable? My personal experience is that I applied for the PLC back in the 80’s. Even though I had been recruited by West Point and Annapolis to play football and lacrosse, I was told I wasn’t physically qualified for PLC due to my 20/200 vision. Later, a Marine general who I knew (and who wrote me a great recommedation) told me this was BS and I could have received a waiver. An enlisted Navy Corpsman (if that’s the right title, is this the same as an Army medic?) at the OSO office shot down my application, saying I could never qualify with my eyesight–and the OSO told me that was it. A few years later in a bar in Annapolis, I met a guy who claimed to be the first guy who had had corrective eye surgery that was accepted for Marine flight training. I realize vision requirements are different between Air as opposed Ground and Law–but since I was told corrective eye surgery back then wasn’t allowed, I’m wondering what the current requirements are. 2nd question: What is the role of the Merchant Marine in times of war? Normally, aren’t they a branch of the Dept of Transportation or Commerce? They do have a service academy that is often overlooked, but what is their role in wartime? ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/47 "2003-03-28T03:03:07Z")
**kniz** , sorry if I sounded snarky, I realize things have changed through the years, and my experiences were somewhat after yours. As of 1988, PLC Air 2ndLts went through TBS before Pensacola. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/48 "2003-03-28T05:33:23Z")
That could be because it changed or because in my day that was also the possible. Say someone signed up for PLC, but had no idea what they wanted to do. They did their 6 week camps; graduated; went to Basic School and then thought “I am not cut out to be an 03, I think I’ll be a fly-boy.” Meanwhile, I told my recruiter “I want to fly!” and so was put on the list to skip Basic School. 😛 [sup] **Well, it almost happened!** [/sup] One reason, I think that it might still happen my way is that we sure didn’t get 25 hours flight time before we were commissioned. So it seems even more geared towards the flight program. What you said was true of everyone besides the PLC and that is why I was using it for recruiting purposes. ---
**Author:** ![gruntz\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gruntz\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gruntz_1)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/49 "2003-03-28T06:04:34Z")
The Few, The Proud, The Marines… Yes, the Army is big, and has lots of soldiers/tanks/ect… But while they are setting up bases, supply chains, and nice warm tents and cots, the Marines are behind enemy lines slitting throats and leaving their enemy’s body’s in their wake. Oh, and marking those dangerous targets so the rest can have some fun blowing stuff up. To the Great Santini, and Uncle Bill… Semper Fi ---
**Author:** ![pilot141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pilot141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pilot141)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/50 "2003-03-28T08:17:51Z")
From **kpm** > [@](#): > > Also the guys who go to the Air Force Academy get the 1st choice of what planes to fly. A lot of them pick fighters. The next choice goes to ROTC graduates. If you go to OCS you get last choice - which means cargo planes in most cases. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!! Where in the world does this info come from? There are many factors that influence whether you actually GET to pilot training (ie commissioning source, physical, needs of the AF, etc), but once you are in school, nothing matters except performance. The students track select (fighters, heavys, helos) after the T-37 phase of SUPT. Your class ranking is based on your PERFORMANCE in Pilot Training, NOT your commissioning source. This continues through SUPT and results in your ultimate assigment in an aircraft - a combination of checkride performance, daily flying scores, academic test scores, military bearing and physical fitness standards. Once again, where you got those gold bars does NOT matter - how you use them and your head DOES. All that being said, what **kpm** said about getting a PPL is true - any flight time will help you. The official Flight Screening Program is no more (after all those T-3 crashes), but you can still get your PPL through ROTC. I spent my last 3 years of active duty as an Instructor Pilot at an SUPT base. I gave checkrides for my last 18 months, and I can tell you that I saw the full range of students and student performance, and where they got their commission had nothing to do with it. Anyone who is motivated and can fly the jet will do well. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/51 "2003-03-28T12:25:01Z")
> [@](#): > > ## \*Originally posted by kniz \* \*\* The answer is none of the above. quote: > > ## from Platoon Leaders Class The Marine Corps is the only branch of service to guarantee aviation positions while you are still in college. If you qualify for the Aviation Option of PLC, you can graduate with a commission and up to 25 free hours of actual flying experience. For more information about officer training, fill out the Request More Information form, and indicate your interest in this program. > > Go to college. Join PLC immediately. Hate me for two summer 6 week camps. Get commission, fly jets, be a MARINE and make more money than other 2nd lieutenants. > \*\* I can tell you for sure that this is not true at all. I am prior USAF and am currently in the process of applying to commission into the USAF (actually I am hitting the board next week) and you most certainly CAN get selected for a pilot or navigator slot while you are still in college. Once you are selected for a pilot slot it is yours, no strings attached. There are no extra requirements for pilots or navs as far as already having your degree before selection. You can apply for a commission into the USAF 365 days from your projected date of graduation. Pilots are exactly the same. ROTC also gives out pilot slots, though they are not divied up until I think your second or third year, though I am not sure. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/52 "2003-03-28T12:29:10Z")
Oh, BTW, you are absolutely, positively, most certainly NOT going to fly jets in any branch without a bachelors degree under your belt. In the Army you can fly helos though as a warrant officer, which I believe requires an associates degree. If you really want to fly then you need to not enlist and go to school. I can only speak for the USAF but pilot selections are EXTREMELY competitive. Most of the time you won’t even get looked at without at least a PPL. And with the airlines sucking balls right now you have alot of out of work pilots applying to the AF with turbine engine experience etc… Its really tough to get picked up right now. ---
**Author:** ![Moeman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@Moeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moeman)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/53 "2003-03-28T13:24:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by x-ray vision \* > \*\*I was in the Air Force, and I don’t believe we had helicopters. \*\* Yes the Air Force has helicopters. But why are the Marines not a seperate force? They still have them listed under the Navy. I mean I see where they work in conjunction, but they should still be their own serperate force. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/54 "2003-03-28T13:27:14Z")
[aside] **Chandeleur** , 😃 on the recap of the transfer from Dot to D’oh. I actually caught a bit of the formal flag transfer to Tom Ridge on the CSPAN cable channel back in late February. Interestingly, I learned that the official DOT march was written by the leader of the CG band – I suppose he’l now get to write the official DOHS march… [/aside] As to the Army-Marines “redundancy”, as things stand, if you attempted a merger, you’d have to give the Army an additional 3 medium-infantry very-fast-deployment non-airborne divisions plus their support structure, prepositioned around the globe; and give the Air Force or the Naval Aviation 3 additional multipurpose air-support wings that would be permanently attached to those 3 Army divisions. ---
**Author:** ![WillSantini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ed8c4c/32.png) [@WillSantini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillSantini)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/55 "2003-03-28T18:26:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Moeman \* > \*\*But why are the Marines not a seperate force? They still have them listed under the Navy. I mean I see where they work in conjunction, but they should still be their own serperate force. \*\* The Marine Corps is not part of nor are the Marines under the Navy. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBill \* > \*\*[H.R. 3478](http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.R.3478:) was introduced in December, 2001. [S. 2718](http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:SN02718:) went to the Committee on Armed Services in July, 2002. Bill is to change SecNav to “Secretary of the Navy and Marine Corps”. > > The Department of the Navy is the “boss” of the US Navy and the “boss” of the US Marine Corps, although if you google “Department of the Navy and Marine Corps” it seems to be in common use today. The Secretary of the Navy’s website says on the [Responsibilities](http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/people/secnav/responsi.html) pageIt is correct to say the US Marine Corps is part of the Department of the Navy, just like the US Navy is part of the Department of the Navy. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![gruntz\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gruntz\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gruntz_1)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/56 "2003-03-29T00:44:17Z")
The Great Santini speaks!!! All shall bow to his military greatness. That’s gotta be u Sgt. Kris says hello. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/57 "2003-03-29T00:48:43Z")
The Great Santini quotes, ya mean. But good digging to find that! ---
**Author:** ![Moeman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@Moeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moeman)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/58 "2003-03-30T14:59:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WillSantini \* > \*\*The Marine Corps is not part of nor are the Marines under the Navy. \*\* But even under that bill the Marines are part of the Department of the Navy. Why can’t they have their own Departent of the Marine Corps? I mean they do enough and deserve it. Personnally during my time in the military is seemed that the Marines were always treated like crap (by all the forces) until something bad happened, then they were the greatest thing since sliced cheese. ---
**Author:** ![Moeman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@Moeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moeman)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/59 "2003-03-30T15:01:45Z")
Oops forgot this… Even with all the crap everyone gave them, those Marines I have worked with always were positive everything would work out right in the end. They always keep morale high in a joint force arena. ---
**Author:** ![jacksen9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jacksen9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacksen9)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2003, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367/60 "2003-03-30T15:08:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Moeman \* > \*\*But even under that bill the Marines are part of the Department of the Navy. Why can’t they have their own Departent of the Marine Corps? I mean they do enough and deserve it. Personnally during my time in the military is seemed that the Marines were always treated like crap (by all the forces) until something bad happened, then they were the greatest thing since sliced cheese. \*\* Explain - treated like crap. I am fully aware of the rivalry between those branches. I thought it was pretty much, all in fun. That is until, I suppose, one of them has way too much to drink or something along those lines. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-navy-airforce-marines/164367.md?page=4)