# Army shows pic of transsexual B. Manning in make up & wig. Valid legal move or just humiliation? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 15, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348 "2013-08-15T20:39:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/1 "2013-08-15T20:39:40Z")
Per this article the Army Prosecution entered into evidence a [pic of Bradley Manning in makeup and blonde wig.](http://gawker.com/army-releases-photo-of-wikileaker-bradley-manning-in-wi-1149171595)In that he has effectively confessed to what he did was this necessary legal tactic or was it just to humiliate him? > [@](#): > > The U.S. military released a photograph yesterday of Wikileaks leaker Bradley Manning wearing makeup and a blonde wig—the first such photo of Manning, who is transgender. > > The photograph was attached to an email Manning had sent to a therapist, Capt. Michael Worsley, about his gender identity, in which he expressed a belief that his career in the military might “get rid of it.” Never mind in reading further the article was wrong and the pic was released by the defense (why?). I withdraw the question. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/2 "2013-08-15T20:42:20Z")
Humiliation. Edit: Was their intent. It would be _nice_ to think that he’s secure enough to say “Eh, so?”. From what I read his was rather expressionless when this came up in trial. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/3 "2013-08-15T22:21:32Z")
I’m gonna ignore it. Life is like that. We all did things when younger that, had they been photographed, would be humiliating to us now. (And by “when younger,” I might well include things done less then an hour ago.) The Golden Rule kicks in here: I won’t judge him by this photograph, because I know there are photographs of me wearing foolish costumes. ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/4 "2013-08-15T22:48:45Z")
Wasn’t his transgender identity crises (in the context of the military environment) part of his affirmative defense? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/5 "2013-08-15T23:44:39Z")
I’m guessing it was done by the defense to show Manning was at a very confusing period of his life. Poor kid, if he joined the military because he thought it would get rid of his transsexuality. ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/6 "2013-08-15T23:51:11Z")
I misspoke. It was not part of an affirmative defense, but as part of leniency strategy for sentencing. From: [The Mind of Bradley Manning - Government Executive](http://www.govexec.com/defense/2013/08/mind-bradley-manning/68759/) > [@](#): > > Bradley Manning said he was sorry for hurting the United States during his sentencing hearing at Fort Meade on Wednesday, saying, “I only wanted to help people, not hurt people.” But hours of testimony presented earlier by his defense team showed that wasn’t Manning’s only reason for downloading thousands of classified documents and giving them to WikiLeaks. Manning, they said, felt isolated, and showed signs of mental instability, suffered from gender identity disorder, had a mild type of Asperger’s, and showed symptoms of slight fetal alcohol syndrome. > ::: > The goal of the defense testimony, of course, is to evoke sympathy in the military judge, Col. Denise Lind, in order to get a lighter sentence. ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/7 "2013-08-16T00:52:13Z")
Manning not only took the photo himself, but he originally sent the photo to his therapist; said therapist testified yesterday that Manning was suffering from GID and that he had wondered why TPTB would send someone with such significant issues downrange and put them in charge of sensitive information. I would say that it was not intended as humiliation, rather as a defense strategy for leniency, that was undertaken with Manning’s consent. A similar (non-wigged) photo was an issue earlier in the trial because prosecutors, only having a cropped version, used it as evidence of a “smiling, happy Manning” post-leaks- IOW, someone very pleased with himself and what he’d done. The defense then released the whole photo, which had Manning in makeup and a bra (in the cropped version it was not clear he was wearing makeup), pointing out that it was of someone who was finally being himself. I’m still wondering how he passed the psych tests in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/8 "2013-08-16T01:21:16Z")
Is his real name Klinger? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/9 "2013-08-16T01:33:22Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I’m gonna ignore it. Life is like that. We all did things when younger that, had they been photographed, would be humiliating to us now. > > (And by “when younger,” I might well include things done less then an hour ago.) > > The Golden Rule kicks in here: I won’t judge him by this photograph, because I know there are photographs of me wearing foolish costumes. The dude\* is transgender, it’s not a ‘‘foolish costume’’ so much as an attempted expression of his gender identity. He has nothing to be embarrassed about. \*or dudette, as the case may be ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/10 "2013-08-16T02:37:31Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > The dude\* is transgender, it’s not a ‘‘foolish costume’’ so much as an attempted expression of his gender identity. He has nothing to be embarrassed about. > > \*or dudette, as the case may be Oops! My blunder, and I apologize. I had gotten the impression it was just something he was wearing for fun, as at a Hallowe’en party or the like. (You know the old tv show “Real People?” Hallowe’en episode. Me. Full length shot, head to toe, wearing a skin-tight blue superhero costume, with ostrich feather headpiece. Thank Ghu I was also wearing a mask!) ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/11 "2013-08-17T12:13:25Z")
> [@bobkitty](#): > > Manning not only took the photo himself, but he originally sent the photo to his therapist; said therapist testified yesterday that Manning was suffering from GID and that he had wondered why TPTB would send someone with such significant issues downrange and put them in charge of sensitive information. I would say that it was not intended as humiliation, rather as a defense strategy for leniency, that was undertaken with Manning’s consent. I personally know of one transsexual woman who is very, very high up in the Department of Defense as a Civilian specialist. I know of a another who is so high up in the NSA that they can’t tell you anything about their job other than “I go to work at this street address.” Being a transsexual may disqualify you from the military as a soldier but in terms of security clearance it does not _necessarily_ disqualify you. > [@](#): > > I’m still wondering how he passed the psych tests in the first place. Could you explain what you mean by this? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/12 "2013-08-17T12:16:42Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > The dude\* is transgender, it’s not a ‘‘foolish costume’’ so much as an attempted expression of his gender identity. He has nothing to be embarrassed about. > > \*or dudette, as the case may be There is dispute over whether or not Manning is transgender, a gay male, or putting on an act. I suppose it’s best to assume they are trans, but the very limited and filtered information which gets out in public makes it pretty difficult for any third party to say one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/13 "2013-08-18T00:36:17Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Could you explain what you mean by this? Absolutely. During the trial and subsequent sentencing hearings, Manning and his therapist have spoken openly and extensively about his anxiety, his depression, his GID, his narcissistic tendencies, his homosexuality, and how he only joined the military in an attempt to… umm, I can’t recall the exact words, but essentially to overcome his homosexuality/GID. Now, considering he went in during DADT, _and_ considering that he had underlying mental health issues (extreme anxiety/depression), I’m genuinely surprised that he not only made it into the military, but that he passed the testing for his clearance AND for his MOS. _Now_ we know that there were significant concerns about his mental health, and even his boss was looking for ways to keep him in the rear-d rather than send him downrange, but it would have been nice if these things had been caught beforehand. I’ve known people who have a history of mental health treatment for things like situational depression, long resolved, who’ve gotten turned away from service… how’d Manning make it through? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/14 "2013-08-18T14:13:51Z")
> [@bobkitty](#): > > Absolutely. During the trial and subsequent sentencing hearings, Manning and his therapist have spoken openly and extensively about his anxiety, his depression, his GID, his narcissistic tendencies, his homosexuality, and how he only joined the military in an attempt to… umm, I can’t recall the exact words, but essentially to overcome his homosexuality/GID. Now, considering he went in during DADT, _and_ considering that he had underlying mental health issues (extreme anxiety/depression), I’m genuinely surprised that he not only made it into the military, but that he passed the testing for his clearance AND for his MOS. > > _Now_ we know that there were significant concerns about his mental health, and even his boss was looking for ways to keep him in the rear-d rather than send him downrange, but it would have been nice if these things had been caught beforehand. I’ve known people who have a history of mental health treatment for things like situational depression, long resolved, who’ve gotten turned away from service… how’d Manning make it through? I see. Well, as far as making it into the military, sadly, I’ve know some outright crazy people, people who honestly should be institutionalized but have periods of high-enough functioning that they can appear sane for a few weeks or months at a time. In fact, most of my classmates from back in high school who enlisted are the sort of people who I would absolutely not trust with a firearm, and yet… IIRC from when I went through the process, low-level security clearances do not require any psychological evaluation, they only check your records to see if you’ve been treated prior. Higher-level ones…don’t know. I do know GID/transsexualism in of itself may disqualify one for service “on the ground” but they don’t necessarily disqualify from other positions. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/15 "2013-08-18T15:49:24Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I see. Well, as far as making it into the military, sadly, I’ve know some outright crazy people, people who honestly should be institutionalized but have periods of high-enough functioning that they can appear sane for a few weeks or months at a time. In fact, most of my classmates from back in high school who enlisted are the sort of people who I would absolutely not trust with a firearm, and yet… > > IIRC from when I went through the process, low-level security clearances do not require any psychological evaluation, they only check your records to see if you’ve been treated prior. Higher-level ones…don’t know. I do know GID/transsexualism in of itself may disqualify one for service “on the ground” but they don’t necessarily disqualify from other positions. Una, you’ve been in upper management for a while so you have some perspective on performance. If you were selecting people for very high security positions would a person being in the middle of transsexual conversion or a sexual identity shift be a red flag as to their reliability in that position? ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/16 "2013-08-18T16:40:58Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Una, you’ve been in upper management for a while so you have some perspective on performance. If you were selecting people for very high security positions would a person being in the middle of transsexual conversion or a sexual identity shift be a red flag as to their reliability in that position? I can’t speak to the reliability issue- they won’t fail a poly or anything like that, and it’s not like someone with GID is any less trustworthy than the general population- but it’ll get you booted from the military due to the medications that need to be taken on a consistent basis. Particularly in the current drawing-down atmosphere where they’re pretty much looking for any reason to discharge people. Caveat: my experience is with the USMC and the Navy. I can’t speak to what the AF or Army do, though I know that one of the supervisors at work just had her daughter receive a commission in the AF, and she lied-by-omission about a history of mild asthma because she knew it would disqualify her. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/17 "2013-08-19T13:32:31Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Oops! My blunder, and I apologize. I had gotten the impression it was just something he was wearing for fun, as at a Hallowe’en party or the like. > > (You know the old tv show “Real People?” Hallowe’en episode. Me. Full length shot, head to toe, wearing a skin-tight blue superhero costume, with ostrich feather headpiece. Thank Ghu I was also wearing a mask!) Oh, I understand! There does exist a college photo of my husband in a dress from a late night screening of Rocky Horror Picture Show. He’s a handsome man, but he does not a pretty girl make. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/18 "2013-08-19T13:37:50Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Per this article the Army Prosecution entered into evidence a [pic of Bradley Manning in makeup and blonde wig.](http://gawker.com/army-releases-photo-of-wikileaker-bradley-manning-in-wi-1149171595) So was it the prosecution or the defense that offered this photo into evidence, then? ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/19 "2013-08-19T17:52:47Z")
> [@bobkitty](#): > > I can’t speak to the reliability issue- they won’t fail a poly or anything like that, and it’s not like someone with GID is any less trustworthy than the general population- but it’ll get you booted from the military due to the medications that need to be taken on a consistent basis. Particularly in the current drawing-down atmosphere where they’re pretty much looking for any reason to discharge people. > Caveat: my experience is with the USMC and the Navy. I can’t speak to what the AF or Army do, though I know that one of the supervisors at work just had her daughter receive a commission in the AF, and she lied-by-omission about a history of mild asthma because she knew it would disqualify her. I imagine a closeted transsexual/transgender person would more easily be able to be blackmailed, thus presenting a security concern. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348/20 "2013-08-19T18:57:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So was it the prosecution or the defense that offered this photo into evidence, then? If you read the OP all the way you will note I corrected myself as it was the defense that offered the pic and I withdrew the question. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/army-shows-pic-of-transsexual-b-manning-in-make-up-wig-valid-legal-move-or-just-humiliation/666348.md?page=2)